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Old 06-16-2012, 08:28 AM   #11
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Guy says PW charger won't shut off - how do I diagnose?

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Originally Posted by stewmagoo View Post
Ok, so I have the same senerio. PW charger when first plugged into carts recepticle, it may show 20 plus amps, it has charged all night and is now reading like 7amps, but charger is still humming and I hear the acid in the batteries boiling.

It has never just shut off. At what point on the gauge is my batteries fully charged. Or are they, and there is just something kooky with my charger?
Starting out at about 20A and then decreasing to about 7A is normal, as is hear the batteries "Boiling", so your charger is working, but may not be shutting off automatically.
The "boiling" is actually called gassing and it is the electrolysis of the water in the electrolyte, which is normal during the later charging phases.

The first check for automatic operation is listen for the relay click (or transformer hum if it is plugged into AC power).
There should be a 3-5 second delay between the time you plug the charger cable into cart and the charger's relay clicking.
IF not, the relay has probably been bypassed. (Most likely due to a bad control board)

If there is a delay before the relay clicks, the control board is activating the relay like it is supposed to.
FWIW: It is the carts battery that closes the charger's relay initially.
That is why the cart battery pack has to be above about 28V before charger will turn on.

To determine is control board is automatically shutting off charger, monitor the on-charge battery pack voltage.
Typical cut-off voltage is in the 44-46V range. If the voltage goes above about 47V, the control board might be bad, or there could be some dirty contacts. (Aux. contact in plug and outside of Negative Radsok in cart's charger receptacle.)

As for when a wet-cell lead acid battery is fully charged, it is when the Specific Gravity of the electrolyte ceases to increase. Since terminal voltage tracks SG pretty well, when terminal voltage ceases to increase is also a fairly decent indicator.
Most battery charger manufactures use about 2.5V per cell as the cut-off voltage. It isn't really fully charged for some batteries, but it is pretty close for most batteries.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:57 AM   #12
stewmagoo
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Default Re: Guy says PW charger won't shut off - how do I diagnose?

JohnnieB,

First test I performed was I plugged the charger into the house power and not plugged into the cart. Result it hummed, powered up.

Next I unplugged from house power, and plugged into the cart and waited for a delay and I heard the click, so that test checked out.

So your diagnosis is the control panel or board is inoperable?
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Guy says PW charger won't shut off - how do I diagnose?

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Originally Posted by stewmagoo View Post
JohnnieB,

First test I performed was I plugged the charger into the house power and not plugged into the cart. Result it hummed, powered up.

Next I unplugged from house power, and plugged into the cart and waited for a delay and I heard the click, so that test checked out.

So your diagnosis is the control panel or board is inoperable?
Wow, the first and second tests appear to conflict with each other.

Turning on when not plugged into cart, means the relay has been bypassed.
Getting a delayed click when plugged into cart only, says the control board is activating relay.

You just might have a perfectly good charger that a previous owner has bypassed the relay in for some reason or another and forgot to return it to normal.
(Perhaps to get charger to turn on when the battery pack voltage was too low? Or possibly the relay contacts are bad?)

Open the charger and wire the relay back into the AC power circuit of the transformer's primary and give it a try. It might work normally.
I don't know which of the myriad of ferroresonant transformer type chargers you have, but they all work about the same and here is schematic of a typical example.

Be sure to unplug the charger from everything before taking cover off and be careful of the big capacitor, because it'll light your fire even when unplugged from everything.

Let us know what you find inside the charger. (Pictures?)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Generic Charger - Auto Shutoff - Three Wire Plug.JPG (41.5 KB, 0 views)
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Guy says PW charger won't shut off - how do I diagnose?

Ok, so got a chance to run a charge for about 14 hrs.

First, the charger hums when plugged into mains (and not plugged into the cart).

Second, after I plugged in the cart, I took voltage and current readings as time went by. Unfortunately, I don't have them with me, but the reading followed the curves described by and others above. Started about 34v, 20A, and over the 14 hours went to almost 44v (43.7 I think) and about 8A. I stopped it there because I had to go to work, and didn't want to let it set another 8 - 10 hrs.

From the discussion above, it appears that the relay is bypassed. So my next move is to open the case and check to see if I can return it to standard wiring.

If it is not bypassed, am I probably looking at a controller board?
To determine is control board is automatically shutting off charger, monitor the on-charge battery pack voltage. From Johnnie's post, it looks like a way to determine this is below. Is this the best way? For clarification, what is "Radsok"

Thanks again for the help!


To determine is control board is automatically shutting off charger, monitor the on-charge battery pack voltage. Typical cut-off voltage is in the 44-46V range. If the voltage goes above about 47V, the control board might be bad, or there could be some dirty contacts. (Aux. contact in plug and outside of Negative Radsok in cart's charger receptacle.)
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Guy says PW charger won't shut off - how do I diagnose?

Charger humming when plugged into AC power, but not plugged into cart means the relay is bypassed.

Regardless of whether the charger is plugged into AC power or not, it is the cart's battery pack that initially closes the relay. That is why this type charger will not turn on unless battery pack voltage is above about 28V.

I've never seen a schematic for a control board, nor taken the time to trace out the circuit, but it acts like a self-holding relay after AC is applied to the transformer's primary winding and when certain conditions are met, the self holding contacts (electronic contacts rather than electro-mecahanical) open and de-energize the relay, shutting off charger.

Most likely, the relay was bypassed because the charger wasn't turning on, so whatever that problem was, it probably still exists.

Could be a bad control board, or it could be the circuit that senses the cart's battery pack has a problem in it.

There will be two smaller gauge wires that connect to the control board, one goes to heatsink diodes are mounted on and the other goes to the charger's output cable. If you measure cart's battery pack voltage exactly between those two wires, the control board is bad. If not, the battery sensing wires/contacts are bad.

Radsoks are the low insertion force, high current connectors used to connect the chargers output conductors to the cart's battery charging input conductors. The male half is located in the charger's plug (item 37 on attached drawing) and the female half is located in the cart's charger receptacle (Brass objects in attached picture).

The battery sensing circuit starts with the Auxiliary contact in the charger's plug (Item 36 on drawing) touching the outside of the female portion of the negative Radsok in the cat's receptacle. The negative Radsok is the one shown in picture with black wire attached.

Since you are a Gun Geek also, if we can't fix the charger, I'll bring over my S&W 625-8(JM) and we'll use it for target practice.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Charger Plug - opened.JPG (40.8 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Charger receptacle with top off.jpg (71.7 KB, 0 views)
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