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Old 07-31-2020, 12:20 PM   #1
ecpchris
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Default Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Hi all,
I know these posts are likely rampant, but did some research and could use some centralized info to make a decision.

I have an Onward with Navitas AC conversion/600a controller on the stock lead acid batteries. I'm underwhelmed with acceleration and battery life using the oem batteries and want to upgrade to lithium. I'd prefer a "plug and play" setup because I don't feel comfortable piecing together a kit myself and am unaware of any local to help.
I looked into Roypow but heard from 2 different dealers that they have issues with voltage drop on the Navitas setups and haven't figured out a fix.
Looked into Allied, more expensive, and not sure if they figured out the battery balancing and charging issues.

In your opinion(s), what would be the best setup as far as:
1) safety
2) reliability/longevity
3) best suited for my motor/controller
4) price

in that order
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Old 07-31-2020, 01:42 PM   #2
ecpchris
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Thoughts on this? https://www.techdirectclub.com/48-vo...5-kwh-66ah-g2/

Not sure what effect 70% capacity means to me short and long term.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:58 PM   #3
Bobbob
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Tech direct has a good price on G2 batteries. However the power pack with BMS is a little bit underpowered on amperage. A lot of people on this site buy the batteries along with the metal case to hold the batteries. They than buy a much better BMS to manage the batteries. Roypow has a good reputation although lately they have had some quality control problems. From what I have read they are working on these problems and soon will have a fix.


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Old 08-01-2020, 09:19 AM   #4
reeseman44
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

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Old 08-01-2020, 09:30 AM   #5
Sergio
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

I don't have any comment on drop in lithium packs since I personally would not use them (it is mainly my preference), but I do have a question that maybe the Navitas guy can answer or someone else perhaps already asked them the question.

Assuming Your battery pack has enough current discharge to provide the nominal voltage needed under load to prevent a "slip" on the AC motor, is there any benefit to going high voltage?

I see a lot of folks making inferences that going from a 51v to a 72v lithium pack would increase the speed but on AC motors the speed is related to frequency and number of poles.

Obviously increasing the pack voltage would allow for a smaller AH pack that delivers the same energy, but it seems that increasing the voltage by itself on a otherwise well matched system would be a waste of money.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:42 PM   #6
fstop
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post

I see a lot of folks making inferences that going from a 51v to a 72v lithium pack would increase the speed but on AC motors the speed is related to frequency and number of poles.
You'd have to ask Navitas for specifics on exactly why the speed ramps with input voltage, but are you saying you are skeptical that it actually does??
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:03 PM   #7
Sergio
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Not skeptical at all, you just reposted my techinical reason for the question, are you familiar with 3 phase AC motor VFD technology?
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:39 PM   #8
ecpchris
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Not skeptical at all, you just reposted my techinical reason for the question, are you familiar with 3 phase AC motor VFD technology?
I was hoping you'd chime in. I tried sending you a PM but your mailbox is full.

I've started to change my mind on building a DIY kit. I'd even be willing to pay you a consulting fee to help me piece something together and answer my questions.

As far as voltage, doesn't bigger always mean better
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:06 AM   #9
WheelchairZach
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

You NEED to check out HPEVS, they have a 140 AH plug n play Lithium Battery for $5k. Not sure what itd take to make it work with the Navitas setup as HPEVS has their own AC Drive setup using a Curtis controller and an HPEVS AC Motor but 140 AH is some serious range..

https://www.hpevs.com/lithium_batter...LB_CAM_72.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpchris View Post
Hi all,
I know these posts are likely rampant, but did some research and could use some centralized info to make a decision.

I have an Onward with Navitas AC conversion/600a controller on the stock lead acid batteries. I'm underwhelmed with acceleration and battery life using the oem batteries and want to upgrade to lithium. I'd prefer a "plug and play" setup because I don't feel comfortable piecing together a kit myself and am unaware of any local to help.
I looked into Roypow but heard from 2 different dealers that they have issues with voltage drop on the Navitas setups and haven't figured out a fix.
Looked into Allied, more expensive, and not sure if they figured out the battery balancing and charging issues.

In your opinion(s), what would be the best setup as far as:
1) safety
2) reliability/longevity
3) best suited for my motor/controller
4) price

in that order
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:54 AM   #10
molfpedal
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Default Re: Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelchairZach View Post
You NEED to check out HPEVS, they have a 140 AH plug n play Lithium Battery for $5k. Not sure what itd take to make it work with the Navitas setup as HPEVS has their own AC Drive setup using a Curtis controller and an HPEVS AC Motor but 140 AH is some serious range..

https://www.hpevs.com/lithium_batter...LB_CAM_72.html

You can build a Leaf G2 pack with -130ah for under $2K. So why spend $5K? Heck, pay someone else $1K to build your pack and pocket the rest. I have a G2 pack that gets me 30 miles per charge with a Navitas Tac2 in a RXV.


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