RXV Danaher->Curtis Conversion, Brake Lights Always On

[coleasterling]

Hi Guys,

I've done quite a bit of searching on this issue and have not come up with anything that matches my problems. I just completed a conversion from a Danaher to Curtis 1206AC controller and can't get the cart to move, plus the brake lights are always on.

Items I've Verified to be Good:

1. Brake is in good shape. It actuates cleanly when using the towing override connectors (for dead battery) and is around 25ohms. Using the Run/Tow switch does not work.

2. The harness is in good shape with no significant acid damage. The wire junctions are in good shape and there are no broken wires anywhere that I can find, verified with my DMM.

3. I've traced each wire through the harness to the Ampseal connector and verified correct pin locations, then had a friend do the same. The pinout is definitely correct.

4. I have plenty of battery voltage with no unusual sag. Cells are in fantastic shape.

5. Brake and throttle switches are functioning as intended. The brake relay is functioning correctly. The run connector is in good shape and making good contact. The 8pin plug with grey wires is in good shape and making good contact, as well.

6. Fuses and fuse housing are all in good shape with good contact.

Items that are issues:

1. The main contactor will not close and the brake will not release when turning the cart on. There is no power to the contactor, leading me to believe the controller is choosing to keep it off?

2. The brake lights are always on.

3. If I disconnect the small blue charger wire at the port, the brake lights turn off and the reverse buzzer no longer sounds. Reconnect, and the buzzer turns back on.

4. The brake pedal has no effect on brake light status at all, with charger port wire plugged in or not.

I do not have a programmer or ftdi cable setup working, yet. I am wondering if my controller is possibly programmed with a different i/o's? The cart is a Shuttle 2+2 version, but I'm not sure of the year.

Edit: I also do not have the new software version, only old. Does anyone mind sharing the new one?

Any ideas on what to check would be greatly appreciated!

Best regards,

Cole

[usgicollector]

Cole check this thread out it might help you. Read post #3 by Bob Boyce. Do you have the 1206ac-5201 or a newer version? I got to go for now. Maybe Bob will read this and help you out.

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...rtis-swap.html

[cgtech]

Also, just because brake plug override works does not mean that the brake passes the controllers version of a brake test. The "override" provides more power to unlock the brake than the controller does during normal operation. The controller does a "twist test" that the brake must withstand (no twist allowed while brake is locked), and that test is not part of the brake plug override. I am not automatically condeming the brake itself, just clearing up the difference between a "brake plug override", and a controller power on brake test. Although, brake lights always on is something the curtis controller does if it failed the controller power on brake test.

[BobBoyce]

Originally Posted by cgtech

Also, just because brake plug override works does not mean that the brake passes the controllers version of a brake test. The "override" provides more power to unlock the brake than the controller does during normal operation. The controller does a "twist test" that the brake must withstand (no twist allowed while brake is locked), and that test is not part of the brake plug override. I am not automatically condeming the brake itself, just clearing up the difference between a "brake plug override", and a controller power on brake test. Although, brake lights always on is something the curtis controller does if it failed the controller power on brake test.

Spot On!

Check both pedals for full upright return. Try pulling up on them and holding them there while the key is turned on to Forward. You may need a helper. Let us know the result of that test.

Bob

[coleasterling]

Looks like I can't edit the first post now, but the controller is a 5201. I followed Bob's thread on converting and did not use the official conversion kit. I opted to unbond the wires as noted, instead of keeping them bonded. I believe the 5201 allows them to stay bonded?

I'm not getting to a state where the controller could even attempt to run the brake test. The contactor never closes (nor does it get power to close), so there's no power to the traction side of the controller.

The brake pedals are returning fully and the switches are actuating as they should be, verified with my DMM. I have not yet tested the position sensors other than to confirm that both brake and throttle have power.

Are there any ideas on why plugging in the charger port wire changes the state of the brake lights and reverse buzzer?

Thanks guys!

[coleasterling]

Here's something interesting that I'm asssuming is a typo, but who knows. Looking at the Danaher troubleshooting guide, it says the voltage from the purple pin for the brake relay to the red pin (85 to 86) should be between 12 and 15V. I'm showing full pack voltage there with the Curtis and the state does not change with brake switch actuation.

[cgtech]

Purple wire is a PWM circuit, it will read full voltage when no load is applied. Your meter can't sense it's being switched on and off so quickly.

[coleasterling]

Originally Posted by cgtech

Purple wire is a PWM circuit, it will read full voltage when no load is applied. Your meter can't sense it's being switched on and off so quickly.

So what's the note in the troubleshooting guide about seeing 12-15V there upon depressing the brake? It lowers PWM duty upon brake actuation? I'm confused about what exactly the controller is supposed to be doing here.

Page 22: 20753 15 Volt Supply Low Voltage
"3. Place pos. probe of meter on the red
wire terminal of the relay harness. Place
neg. probe on the purple wire terminal.
Depress brake pedal. Should observe
12 – 15 VDC. If good, replace relay. If
bad go to step 4."

[coleasterling]

Some new info here after I got diagnostics running.

1. Throttle sensor has good voltage and when probed with my DMM, shows correct readings all the way back to the Curtis connector, but when viewing the inputs screen, there is no change in throttle position percentage.

2. Diagnostics show "EM Brake Driver On", "EM Brake Driver OC" and "Main Driver OC".

This of course indicates a brake failure, but it tests correctly at 25ohms. I can't verify the brake is 100% good, but what is the main driver oc? Any ideas why I wouldn't see tps % when actuation the throttle? I'm actually leaning towards a faulty controller now.

[cgtech]

The controller drives these circuit from the battery pack voltage, it powers lower voltage circuits by chopping down the average voltage to one that is compatible with the circuit it's driving (motor brake circuit, main solenoid circuit, encoder circuit, pedal sensor circuits). It uses a idea called "pulse width modulation", PWM. Here is PWM in a nutshell. The voltage turns on and off quickly, but it is only on for a percentage of that duration. Let's use 25% as an example (to make 12v from a 48v battery pack). Power switches on and off thousands of times per second, but overall it was only on 25% of the time. Like this,

_|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___| =|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|___|=|_

It's actually a little smarter than that too, it will keep the external driver circuits at a stable voltage even when battery pack voltage varies (if you tell it 25% of 48v nominal voltage, it will supply 12v even when pack is full, empty, under max load, or at rest). It has other tricks too, like power a solenoid at full voltage to change it's on-off state, then decreasing voltage to keep it in it's powered state, but at reduced voltage to reduce coil heating (used on both, brake driver circuit, and main solenoid circuit).