1999 TXT Going to Lithium

[SouthernFlyed]

Doing a rebuild/remodel of 1999 TXT for a Sporting Clays cart and putting a 36v drop-in (3 12v) batteries by Patriot Power Source in Rock Hill, SC. Anybody have any experience with the company?

Their 3 12v batteries show an 100AH, comes with charger, wiring kit (4ga) and battery meter at a resonable price. I was more inclined to order by the 100AH and weight of 24.2lbs than other stuff.

Thanks!!!

[Pat911]

You don’t want 3 x 12v batteries, you want a single 36v battery with a single BMS managing the whole pack. 12v batteries will all have their own BMS and balancing the pack will be difficult.

There are threads on here about this very topic.

Cheers
Pat.

[SouthernFlyed]

Thanks

[superfan86]

Patriot makes 12v lithium batteries, and that isn't the same as 12v lead acid and WOULD be ok for your application.

Assuming you are looking at LiFePo4 or similar, to determine if the battery good for your application you need to look at a 3 big things:

1) Amps. The vendor should be able to provide you peak draw over 3 and 6 seconds. That needs to be a bigger number than your controller peak. A stock controller you should look for something with an absolute minimum of 200, but you risk the cart cutting out on your under heavy draw. 250+ is a sign of a better battery and will likely not have any issues under stock draw situations.

2) BMS solution. Many of the "directly replacement" style batteries don't have any battery management solution to link them together, so while the cells of the individual batteries are fine, the series can get out of balance and lead to poor charging.

3) warranty. Lithium should hold up extremely well vs lead acid, but problems can happen with emerging technology and knowing that you have 5-10 years of your local shop to be there and take care of you is critical.

I looked at their website and the kit you are looking at seems like it would meet your needs. They have 300 amp peak draw and an 8 year warranty. My only concern would be how they balance between the batteries. If they don't have a great answer there, I'd look at something "all in one" like the RoyPow or Eco Battery units that use a central BMS solution for the entire 36v pack.

What are they quoting you for the whole kit? What you are describing for lifepo4 should be in the $1700-$2100 range. I'm in Charleston and paid $1900 after tax for a 36v RoyPow 105ah kit w/ charger about 6 months ago. Cables should be about $100-$150.

[SouthernFlyed]

Thanks Superfan!

Spoke to owner at Patriot for almost 30 mins, he and his dad own the company and both have an interseting background in the electric fields (dad retired from a major southern power company and both of them have experience provinding Lithium units to military and first responder organizations).

Their 36v drop in package has what you saw ---- 3 12v 100AH, charger, and wiring kit (4 gage), voltage meter (dash or underseat) and the 8 year warranty you mentioned. Also has BMS and 100AH, 200 for 3/5 mins and 300 for 3 seconds.

I discussed the max and if I recall, it was over 300. During my phone call the young man gave me some tips as he's rebuilding/updating a 1997 TXT and already has this drop in package in it. Picked up 2mph (19/20mph) that could be a function of both larger tires (I'm doing 20") and the loss of over 270lbs of weight from the lead batteries. Charge time was just under 3hrs and a 1hr "quick hit" would take it to 80%. Range estimates were in the 25 to 40 mile range with speed/load and terrain being the wild cards.

As a Sporting Clays cart in Eastern North Carolina, I may see some moderate hills, but nothing like the western part of the state. My typical round of clays is unload, 5/10 minute ride to the clubhouse, on average a 2 1/2 min ride between 14/15 shooting stands, back to clubhouse and trailer and head home. On occassions, may shoot to rounds, so 2 1/2 mins above might be doubled. Speed would be less than 10mph for 90% of what I do.

So I'm right at 60 mins run time per round and 120 mins for two. Will know more when the rubber hits the rode, but hoping the power with the 100AH will handle whatever hills I encounter, and if I need to, I can extend the run time by adding another battery.

Just as an aside, I'm thinking about doing a patina wrap to make this cart look like it just came outta the barn! If nothing else it'll be quite different and keep my buddies looking at it and not at the targets being tossed ---- I need all the edge I can get shooting Sporting Clays!!!

Again, thanks for your response!

Good Shooting!!!

[superfan86]

Originally Posted by SouthernFlyed

Thanks Superfan!

Spoke to owner at Patriot for almost 30 mins, he and his dad own the company and both have an interseting background in the electric fields (dad retired from a major southern power company and both of them have experience provinding Lithium units to military and first responder organizations).

Their 36v drop in package has what you saw ---- 3 12v 100AH, charger, and wiring kit (4 gage), voltage meter (dash or underseat) and the 8 year warranty you mentioned. Also has BMS and 100AH, 200 for 3/5 mins and 300 for 3 seconds.

I discussed the max and if I recall, it was over 300. During my phone call the young man gave me some tips as he's rebuilding/updating a 1997 TXT and already has this drop in package in it. Picked up 2mph (19/20mph) that could be a function of both larger tires (I'm doing 20") and the loss of over 270lbs of weight from the lead batteries. Charge time was just under 3hrs and a 1hr "quick hit" would take it to 80%. Range estimates were in the 25 to 40 mile range with speed/load and terrain being the wild cards.

As a Sporting Clays cart in Eastern North Carolina, I may see some moderate hills, but nothing like the western part of the state. My typical round of clays is unload, 5/10 minute ride to the clubhouse, on average a 2 1/2 min ride between 14/15 shooting stands, back to clubhouse and trailer and head home. On occassions, may shoot to rounds, so 2 1/2 mins above might be doubled. Speed would be less than 10mph for 90% of what I do.

So I'm right at 60 mins run time per round and 120 mins for two. Will know more when the rubber hits the rode, but hoping the power with the 100AH will handle whatever hills I encounter, and if I need to, I can extend the run time by adding another battery.

Just as an aside, I'm thinking about doing a patina wrap to make this cart look like it just came outta the barn! If nothing else it'll be quite different and keep my buddies looking at it and not at the targets being tossed ---- I need all the edge I can get shooting Sporting Clays!!!

Again, thanks for your response!

Good Shooting!!!

Sounds like they got you well taken care of. If the batteries are all at a 100% SOC (or at least identical SOC) when installed, it is extremely unlikely that you will have any issues with the cells getting significantly out of balance as long as you are drawing power from them as a series set. An undercharge situation is far more likely than an overcharge, but in either case you would fall back to the individual BMS on each battery to prevent a problem.

IF you are running any 12v items, make sure you buy a 36v to 12v inverter so you are drawing from all 3 batteries evenly. They are very inexpensive on Amazon, esp if all you are doing is running lights.

I would recommend that you balance the 3 batteries prior to putting them fully into service as a 36v set. if Patriot isn't able to verify that they are all idental SOC at install. Wire them in PARALLEL with a 12v charger.

Good Tutorial here

You are going to have a 30-40 mile range with that configuration. I wouldn't worry about that in the slightest and you will have significantly more torque and power than you did with lead acid. It is going to be an absolute beast.

[Pat911]

3 x 12v batteries will always be a compromise, regardless of how well they are matched.

If the owners are experienced in providing lithium packs to military etc. as you suggest, they should know this. Ask them if they can manufacture you a 36v pack. It should actually be cheaper that 3 x 12v packs. Cells are the same, just replace the 3 x 4 cell BMS’s with a single 12 cell BMS.

Cheers
Pat.

[Volt_Ampere]

IMO supplying 12V batteries is only done to make customers feel like they are just replacing their FLA batteries. Not a good option for all the reasons stated here. I would opt for a solution that gives you one battery at the desired voltage. If you are thinking of upgrading to 48V do it now and not after you have got a 36V Lithium battery.

[Micbad]

Originally Posted by SouthernFlyed

Doing a rebuild/remodel of 1999 TXT for a Sporting Clays cart and putting a 36v drop-in (3 12v) batteries by Patriot Power Source in Rock Hill, SC. Anybody have any experience with the company?

Their 3 12v batteries show an 100AH, comes with charger, wiring kit (4ga) and battery meter at a resonable price. I was more inclined to order by the 100AH and weight of 24.2lbs than other stuff.

Thanks!!!

A good single lithium option with a very nice BMS is Extreme Team Batteries.

A 36V 100Ah battery from them is $1800 ish. It sports a 250amp peak and 120amp continuous rating.

Depending on your motor / controller (assume it’s stock) then seems adequate.

[SouthernFlyed]

Thanks to all and all great points.