Torque Lost afte Power Spring Install

[agovar]

Crash; I checked the weights and they seemed fine. I also replaced the buttons in the drive clutch which got rid of a little rattle. When trying to climb the test hill the drive clutch open pretty quickly and the belt drops to the bottom. On the driven clutch the belt is sitting near the top. The cart will not move unless i backup off the hill drive on level surface. I will try to post a pic but prob not today because cart is over brothers house.

[crash12888]

Can you tell where the belt is on the drive clutch when it starts to pull from a dead stop? Like where does it start to bite at?
If the belt is starting half way up the drive clutch when you take off it will act like you are starting off in 2nd gear,
How old is the belt?

[ckiguy]

Originally Posted by Lightninlarry

I never really had any luck with the power spring on the carry alls.. dont know if its the extra weight of the carry all or what but maybe you should try the clutch machining!.. after i had the mahining done it climbs way better than when i had the power spring!!

is this beacause suposely the carryall have a different set of gears in them, not for speed but for pwr? i have heard about this but i am unsure if its true.

[BigBlockMan]

Some of the carryalls have different gear ratios but that will not change the way a power spring works. It may not make as much difference as it does to a standard golf cart due to the extra weight of the carryall. But it does still work the same. I'll try to explain this best I can without getting to long.
The way a power spring works is it holds the clutch in low gear longer allowing the motor to rev higher giving the cart more power. If everything is assembled correctly the power spring can not have less power than the stock spring, As it simply makes the driven clutch harder to spread apart which raises engine rpm increasing torque. With that said, Here's some ways you CAN loose torque when installing a power spring. Sometimes something as simple as installing the belt in the oppisite direction from what it was originally or getting even a tiny bit of grease, oil or even plain dirt on the drive belt. It will work just like putting flour on the counter to keep cookie dough from sticking. (The belt will not be as grippy) Now the reason a machined clutch makes a more dramatic difference when installing a spring is it actully has a lower gear to start off in (like a granny gear.) These numbers are just approximate but will show the difference.
Dia.of drive clutch at engagement 2"
Dia of driven clutch with belt 1/4 down in driven clutch 8" Thats a 4:1 ratio now multipy that through the 12:1 gear ratio in the gear box
A standard cart drive ratio. 48:1 complete drive ratio
Now the same thing with a machined driven clutch.
Dia of drive clutch will actully go down some because the machined driven clutch will pull the belt tighter pulling it farther down in drive clutch.
Dia of drive clutch at engagement 1 7/8"
Dia of driven clutch thats been machined with belt sticking 1/8 above the outside dia of driven clutch. 8 3/4" that gives you a 4.6:1 ratio now multiply that by 12:1 gearbox ratio.
Machined clutch gear ratio of standard cart. 56:1
THATS OVER A 15% INCREASE IN GEAR RATIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHATS IT ALL MEAN?????????
Take a standard cart and chain it to a tree. Install a load scale in chain between cart and tree. Now with a standard cart try to pull the tree down. Lets say the scale read 500lbs. Now try to pull tree down again with a cart with a power spring in the driven clutch. It still will only pull 500lbs. The reason is the cart never moves so the spring slowing the shift of the driven clutch does not apply yet. You still have a 48:1 starting ratio. Now if you try to pull the tree down with the machined clutch WITH or WITHOUT the power spring it will pull well over the 500 lbs because it has a 56:1 starting gear ratio. The power spring can ONLY help once the cart is moving, By slowing the upshift of clutch. Where the spring will really help is, lets say you have a steep hill and when carts going up hill the cart slows way down to 5mph and engine is struggleing at 1500 rpm due to heavy load. Same hill with a power spring, Cart will slow down but usually not as much because the driven clutch will downshift faster due to the stronger spring so now to go 5mph the motor is running 2500 rpm. The motor makes way more POWER at 2500 rpm as 1500 rpm so it should climb the hill faster and have much more reserve power. Well I didn't do to good at keeping it short but I hope it all makes it easier to understand. This applies to all brands and shows how even a machined 36 degree ezgo clutch will out pull a 28 degree power clutch. The different ramp angle just changes the upshift but the starting ratio is the same for both clutches where the diameter of the machined clutch is larger then either of the stock clutches.

[crash12888]

Great explaination Tom, understand it perfectly, someone needs to copy yhat post to a sticky,
You wouldn't want to type that every day!

[BLACK DEATH]

Maybe the spring is weak or no good. Wouldnt this be a possibility? How can one check to be sure its not the spring? How much spring pressure should it have & how to accurately to check it?

[BigBlockMan]

Originally Posted by agovar

Larry: So you did not see any difference with power spring on carry all's? MIne actuallt got worse? Crash: When on hill and spinning the belt is at the very top of rear driven clutch.

That shows the spring is not weak, Again all it does is slow down the upshift. It has the belt at the top where it should be and its not upshifting at all because it will not move.

[BigBlockMan]

Originally Posted by BLACK DEATH

Maybe the spring is weak or no good. Wouldnt this be a possibility? How can one check to be sure its not the spring? How much spring pressure should it have & how to accurately to check it?

Stock spring takes about 50 lbs to compress Power spring takes about 250 lbs to compress, even if it was 1/2 the strength it was supposed to be it would still be almost 3 times as strong as original.

[BLACK DEATH]

50 to 250.... You can actually feel that difference with just your hands. The stock one is very easy to compress.

[Lightninlarry]

Cant say that i did not see a difference from the stock spring..( carry all stock spring is bigger i think from a ds).. to the power spring but it was not alot!! I know that my carry all seems to climb a little better than the carry alls that are running the power springs! It seems to me that i get the best of both worlds with the machining... It will climb to the point that it breaks traction and it will do 35+ with me and the dog and an cooler FULL of ice cold adult beverages!!!!