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Old 02-09-2011, 11:34 AM   #21
sho305
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

What was the guy saying on another thread as I never had that problem, if your voltage regulator goes bad it can hold the key on and make it run? All you have to do is unplug it, its next to the fuses on fender by clutches. I might not have that right, but it sounds right. Solenoid could be sticking too, I feel that the bad ground was another problem you found though, this staying running is another problem.....is my best guess. I'd take the ground to engine/starter off and clean/inspect it well, install and make sure its all on there right, clean the battery terminal and clamp really well I had to file mine out. Odds are the wire you put on temp was not large enough to handle constant starter load so it got hot. I'll guess the bad ground cable caused the other small wire to melt. So find out if its the voltage reg or solenoid staying on now and you might have it? You could leave the batt clamp loose so you can pull it off, put a tester on the small wire that activates the solenoid, if it is dead (no 12v) with key/pedal off and it is starting then its the soldenoid. I'd have to check a diagram (that is posted here) but pretty sure power goes to key, to pedal, to the ignitor and solenoid to make it run....so it can't run without key and pedal or something is shorting power to that circuit. If nothing is activating the solenoid its trashed, but its not common for them to go bad as other things. Wire and ground problems are very common, the voltage reg sort of common, ignitor/coil/generator/solenoid failure is not very common. They do go once in a while the brushes an bearings in generator, ignitors once in a while, but not near as common they are very durable parts compared to the wiring. Lot of carts do have new connectors on the small wires by the solenoid, wires get mud and stuff on them down there in that corner.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:20 PM   #22
Rumblefish
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

I'll try to unplug the regulator. By looking at the schematic i'm thinking that they key and the acc pedal will still engage the solinoid. I'm going to check the ground on the solinoid again, cause i'm thinking that if it's not grounded then maybe the extra voltage i saw from the ground terminal of the battery to the engine block, which would raise the current and kind of cause a ground loop or back current which may be keeping the solinoid engaged.

Do you or anyone know if it's a bad thing to ground this engine block to the ground terminal of the battery? Obviously i'll need something larger than a 12ga wire or a fuse in line to keep it from burning up if whatever is causing this thing to keep running happens again.

I'll also say that when it "keeps running" that turning the key off doesn't make it stop so it's not the acc pedal microswitch hanging.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

You should see 0v or close if you test block to neg battery while starting. If you don't your ground cable is bad. IIRC the ground cable is to the generator case? Gen is bolted to mount engine is bolted to?

When I put a clone in I jumpered the ground to the engine block, because the engine has a starter too. The generator is the only thing that takes a lot of power to turn the engine and only thing that needs a big ground cable....of course it all should be grounded but the engine does not really need to I think the coil and pickup have their own, maybe I never actually tested that lol. IMO the factory wire can handle factory needs, you just need to fix what is wrong its not working right someplace. I grounded the frame (remember the engine is on the swingarm not frame) to ground my lights, because they don't have a ground wire. They hardly worked without it and can blow fuses that way.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:52 AM   #24
Rumblefish
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

See that's the strange thing, i tested the ground cable from the terminal to terminal and it's good.

Yes the generator is bolted to the motor and I'm pretty sure there's a good connection there.

So i'm looking at the starter/generator on the schematic and trying to figure out how it runs at half speed(or even backwards) when i ground the motor (and it didn't happen all the time because i started and stopped about 10 times before it burnt up that last 12ga wire i put on there).

There are a few warm days coming up so I see some good garage time in store... I'm going to start with pulling the voltage regulator because it looks like the starter and motor should run without it. I'll add a larger ground cable and add a fuse this time too.
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:40 PM   #25
Rumblefish
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

Unplugged the AVR and ran a new ground wire to the engine block with a 20amp fuse (since the black wire going to the field pickup coil is gone). It's started and ran fine so I'm going to order a replacement regulator. Any ideas why they go bad?

I cleaned out the oil delivery tube and checked for vacuum at the valve on the left side. It only pulls about 1 lbs of vacuum, is that about right? I read where someone else had to rev their motor up to 2500 for a while to get the oil to deliver so I pulled out my digital tach and I also tightened the 10mm nut on the governor, after about 3 minutes I started to see a little oil being pulled up the tube, so I guess it's working, though it seems like there should be more to cool the top end. What happens for carts that never see much over half throttle?
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:18 AM   #26
SteveRand
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

I could be wrong on this, but I believe the oil is delivered to the valves by crankcase pressure, and not by vacuum. The oil is splashed into the delivery tube, then the pressure caused by the piston moving down into the crankcase forces the oil up to the valve cover. The check valve keeps the oil from draining back down during the up stroke of the piston. Blow-by also causes pressure in the crankcase. There is a blow-by tube from the valve cover to the airbox to allow the fumes to escape and be burned in the cylinder. Maybe it could be plugged, causing too much pressure in the valve cover, and not letting oil enter. Also, make sure the passages in the valve cover where the tubes attach are clear.

I wonder if the check valve might be backwards...

If the oil filler cap is loose, or for some other reason the pressure leaks from the crankcase, you might not get oil delivery to the valves. At the same time, the fuel pump is driven by these same pressure pulses, so with no pressure, no fuel delivery!?!?

SmallBlock - anyone - what do you think? It's 3:15 in the morning and I'm rambling! Am I close on any of this?
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:10 AM   #27
Mike Mac
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

Sounds very reasonable to me Steve.
And about the ports being plugged in the valve cover looks viable, in the pictures at the front of this thread, the rocker galley looks a little caked with crud. Thats why I said he "may have done damage" running it that long with out oil in the crank case and not getting to the rockers.
But I wouldn't do anything about it now until he makes it run, then he can decide how much he wants to do to it. Or how much money he wants to spend on it.
He may be like the rest of us, and be hooked by now!
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:36 AM   #28
sho305
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Default Re: G9 smokes fouls plugs, possible top end oil delivery problem

I looked at that on the engine we took out of the G9. If I recall right, there is a port at the bottom of the pushrod area that feeds the fuel pump. Above the pump is the valve then to the cover. On the other side is a port above the crank that goes to the cover. I was thinking the valve may cause more pressure to the fuel pump as well as acting like a one way valve, it might limit the airflow too. You don't want oil in your fuel pump, however the way that one is the line goes down and is very short, it may work with oil in it or oil can't get up to it. But I don't know if the pushrod area has much oil in it or not. Now on the clone we tried to run the pump above the crank and wow it pumps oil there like crazy and plugged the pump right up, so its possible the oil comes from that and not the valve, unless they have some kind of protector on it inside.
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