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Old 09-04-2020, 02:09 AM   #11
cgtech
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama Brad View Post
You also need to get you a hydrometer like this one to test each cell. $10

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Golf-Cart-...234166&veh=sem
After many years of doing Specific Gravity tests for factory battery warranty claims, I'm pretty much past that. Theres a few reasons why.

1- You can get all the results you need from a volt meter, and some of the tests may require "babysitting" to get the numbers, I'll admit that "babysitting" charging batteries is boring.

2- just what is a bad SG reading on one or 2 cells gonna get you? Not like you can replace the individual bad cell in a 6-cell battery.

3- even a "nice even & well balanced, but worn out" battery pack will show "uniformly low" SG readings, that would steer you to a "charger problem" when that's not the issue.

Please dont buy equipment you dont really need. If your batteries measure pretty equally (within 0.1 volt when at rest), you dont need a hydrometer, but you need more time testing with a average voltmeter (like $5-20 at harbor freight) if you can get good readings (2 points after the decimal is plenty, like "x.xx"). Also, like has been said elsewhere, your cart is the best "battery tester", you already own it, and the cart is what you want to work.

If you want to do it yourself, you can, and without spending much $ to find the true issue. But it will take a little of your time to do it right. There is no "heres the instant answer". If a little time & effort is not something you are interested in putting in, send it to a shop, and wait on their time.

We will be asking you to take readings on individual batteries, while underway, some clips will be handy, or a friend to help. It will give more accurate results than a SG test.
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Old 09-04-2020, 08:35 AM   #12
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgtech View Post
After many years of doing Specific Gravity tests for factory battery warranty claims, I'm pretty much past that. Theres a few reasons why.

1- You can get all the results you need from a volt meter, and some of the tests may require "babysitting" to get the numbers, I'll admit that "babysitting" charging batteries is boring.

2- just what is a bad SG reading on one or 2 cells gonna get you? Not like you can replace the individual bad cell in a 6-cell battery.

3- even a "nice even & well balanced, but worn out" battery pack will show "uniformly low" SG readings, that would steer you to a "charger problem" when that's not the issue

Please dont buy equipment you dont really need. If your batteries measure pretty equally (within 0.1 volt when at rest), you dont need a hydrometer, but you need more time testing with a average voltmeter (like $5-20 at harbor freight) if you can get good readings (2 points after the decimal is plenty, like "x.xx"). Also, like has been said elsewhere, your cart is the best "battery tester", you already own it, and the cart is what you want to work.

If you want to do it yourself, you can, and without spending much $ to find the true issue. But it will take a little of your time to do it right. There is no "heres the instant answer". If a little time & effort is not something you are interested in putting in, send it to a shop, and wait on their time.

We will be asking you to take readings on individual batteries, while underway, some clips will be handy, or a friend to help. It will give more accurate results than a SG test.
Good to know...
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:01 AM   #13
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgtech View Post
After many years of doing Specific Gravity tests for factory battery warranty claims, I'm pretty much past that. Theres a few reasons why.

1- You can get all the results you need from a volt meter, and some of the tests may require "babysitting" to get the numbers, I'll admit that "babysitting" charging batteries is boring.

2- just what is a bad SG reading on one or 2 cells gonna get you? Not like you can replace the individual bad cell in a 6-cell battery.

3- even a "nice even & well balanced, but worn out" battery pack will show "uniformly low" SG readings, that would steer you to a "charger problem" when that's not the issue.

Please dont buy equipment you dont really need. If your batteries measure pretty equally (within 0.1 volt when at rest), you dont need a hydrometer, but you need more time testing with a average voltmeter (like $5-20 at harbor freight) if you can get good readings (2 points after the decimal is plenty, like "x.xx"). Also, like has been said elsewhere, your cart is the best "battery tester", you already own it, and the cart is what you want to work.

If you want to do it yourself, you can, and without spending much $ to find the true issue. But it will take a little of your time to do it right. There is no "heres the instant answer". If a little time & effort is not something you are interested in putting in, send it to a shop, and wait on their time.

We will be asking you to take readings on individual batteries, while underway, some clips will be handy, or a friend to help. It will give more accurate results than a SG test.
Glad to hear I'm not alone about questioning the usefulness of SG readings.

Just wanted to add something to your #1 about babysitting to get voltage readings. I have several voltmeters and some of the better ones, have Min/Max or Peak Hold features that do the babysitting for me.

I also use cameras to babysit things. I have an attachment on a DSLR that will take pictures at one second intervals, which is often enough to capture most voltage or amp events I'm looking for and if it isn't, I use a digital movie camera that records up to four hours, which is more than long enough for most stuff.

I've also been seeing advertisements for small wireless surveillance cameras that might be adapted to watch the LED on a controller for error codes while the seat was down. Also might be useful for other babysitting tasks.
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Old 09-05-2020, 07:52 PM   #14
Ezgeaux
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Okay, that is about 41V total.
Open the charger and measure the voltage on the black and red wires going into the control board while charger is pumping out 18-19 amps.

If it is more the 41V, get to cleaning.
JohnnieB,

So I removed the pos and neg from the batteries today (removed neg to install the freedoms plug, already had the yellow plug installed). I cleaned all of the connections really well including the charger connections. I then opened the charger d plug and cleaned all of that connections inside really well. The screws were too stripped to remove the back cover of the d plug receptacle on the cart to clean those connections.

I opened up the charger. It’s pretty gross inside. The previous owner did keep the cart and charger outdoors (but covered).

It’s on the charger now charging and I want to perform the check you mention above. Can you give me some specifics on where exactly to take the voltage measurement? I have a pic of the inside of the charger attached. I’m pretty nervous to touch the charger internals while it’s charging.

Few other odd things I noted while doing all of this:

1. The charger d plug cable had electrical tape on it. I removed it and found that the cable appears to have been accidentally cut at some point. It looks like the red and black wires survived but the white wire had electrical tape around it, but I did not remove it. Could this be affecting my charger performance?

2. Not sure how I missed this but someone cut off the ground on the AC wall plug for the charger. So it’s just two prongs. Is this a problem for the charger?

3. When I removed the negative from the batteries, my DVM read 24.1v. Why is this? Once the positive was removed it turned off.

Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

1. Probably not.

2. No

3. You get 24V on what? IE where are the test leads connect to?

The red and black lead come out of the control board just in front of the capacitor (silver can). The red on goes to the piece of aluminum the diodes are mounted on (Heatsink). The black one should go to the third wire in the output cable, but cannot tell if it does in the picture.
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Old 09-05-2020, 09:08 PM   #16
Ezgeaux
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
1. Probably not.

2. No

3. You get 24V on what? IE where are the test leads connect to?

The red and black lead come out of the control board just in front of the capacitor (silver can). The red on goes to the piece of aluminum the diodes are mounted on (Heatsink). The black one should go to the third wire in the output cable, but cannot tell if it does in the picture.
Thanks, I’ll check to see what this voltage is.

As for the dvm it’s connected to the same leads as the old ezgo meter I replaced it with. The only thing I changed was I got rid of the wire from the keyswitch to the to the meter. So that the dvm is on at all times. I’m not sure where these leads go to though. I’ll have to check.
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Old 09-06-2020, 11:11 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

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Originally Posted by Ezgeaux View Post
Thanks, I’ll check to see what this voltage is.

As for the dvm it’s connected to the same leads as the old ezgo meter I replaced it with. The only thing I changed was I got rid of the wire from the keyswitch to the to the meter. So that the dvm is on at all times. I’m not sure where these leads go to though. I’ll have to check.
I thought you were talking abut a handheld DVM.
Not sure where your dash mounted DVM battery meter' leads are connected, so I'm not sure why you got the voltage reading you did with specific cables disconnected.
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Old 09-06-2020, 03:32 PM   #18
Ezgeaux
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
I thought you were talking abut a handheld DVM.
Not sure where your dash mounted DVM battery meter' leads are connected, so I'm not sure why you got the voltage reading you did with specific cables disconnected.
Ok, so I charged the batteries all night. This afternoon the dvm read 37v which is typical for what I’ve been seeing after settling. If I plug in the charger At this point I’ll get another 2 hrs of charging. So I plugged back in the charger this afternoon. After letting the dvm get up to around 41v and stable (15 mins or so) I checked the following voltages:

Dvm: 41.1v
Multimeter on pack: 41.27v
Across the black and red wire in charger as JohnnieB mentioned: 41.86v

Charger was at about 17 amps.

Does this all sound about normal?

Just trying to figure out why I don’t see upwards of 44-46v as I’ve seen many times on these forums.

Thanks!
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Old 09-06-2020, 03:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

The 41.x volts & 17a lines up perfectly with a properly working battery charger (that would be happy to get up to the 45v range, if it could in the time allowed). And low "after charge battery voltage" lines up with damaged/worn out batteries that arent capable of taking a full charge.

Well, this isnt looking like a charger problem.
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:20 PM   #20
Ezgeaux
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Default Re: Bad battery pack or charger?

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Originally Posted by cgtech View Post
The 41.x volts & 17a lines up perfectly with a properly working battery charger (that would be happy to get up to the 45v range, if it could in the time allowed). And low "after charge battery voltage" lines up with damaged/worn out batteries that arent capable of taking a full charge.

Well, this isnt looking like a charger problem.
I just checked again and dvm reads 41.3v with 42.06v across black and red in charger. About 16 amps now. It’s like it’s trying to get up to the 45v range but takes very long and can’t. Likely due to worn batteries as you suggests?

Thanks! Go to know my charger is behaving appropriately.
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