batteries expelling hydrogen

[iainlbc]

Had a similar thing happen, 2AM wake up. 1 of 3 Monoxide detectors was going off in the closed garage. Not sure why the other two didn’t alarm.

We were actually aware of the ventilation requirement (it’s in the first 5 pages of the ezgo manual), and just forgot it was charging.

Since then I installed a smart plug and scheduled it to be turned off 8PM-8AM, (no schedule to turn on).

Still not fool proof, I think ideally I would have some kind of smart sensor detecting the garage door state every 5 minutes, and if it is closed, make sure the smart plug for the charger is in off state. And/or maybe a smarter hydrogen sensor that can send a signal to turn off the smart plug if it detects gas.





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[SB77]

Originally Posted by WalterM6

Have you ever thought that your CO detector might be bad. Especially since nobody else in the neighborhood seems to be having any problems.

They are brand new. And the fire department has handheld meters that show actual amount. So 100 percent certain. The fire department services a county of 1.5 million people.... If it's not on their radar....

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[golf cart man]

Originally Posted by SB77

It may be well known among forum members here, but not by the general golf cart owning public in South FL. Literally no one I've told here locally had any idea. I'm in South Florida... Palm Beach county. Hell I bought my cart from a firefighter... He was very thorough on the charging safety... Didn't mention the hydrogen. If firefighters don't know about it... I don't think it's a well known problem.

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Interesting to hear that. I'm also in Palm Beach County

[alchemy]

Originally Posted by nickdalzell1

I wouldn't convert to Lithium especially regarding safety as the reason.

Lithiums are even more explosive when they explode than a standard lead-acid battery. Google Tesla Craigslist fires, Galaxy Note 7. Those are only the most recent.

Lithiums require perfect cell balance and IMO a smarter owner than most I deal with in my small town. I cringe what might happen if a kid here rolls one over or gets hit by a truck or if people let them discharge over winter like they always do.

I was scared of the idea of lithium batteries even before all the stories of explosions and fires and jets falling to the ground in flames. Chemists usually hate using lithium hydrides or anything else pyrophoric (ignites in air) or explodes with water. I still can't believe they got these chemicals into common consumer items. They are about the worst chemicals you could have in the old fashion chemistry labs blowing up stereotype. None of that includes building hydrogen under pressure as well. In one way lithium batteries are a really dumb idea but on the other hand they do work so well and surprisingly they have found a way to limit the danger.

[alchemy]

Interesting thread. Surprising H2 could set of a CO detector. Some are saying CO2 , carbon dioxide, which many consider harmless and natural. It is for the most part, however, I could have been killed once having dry ice in the trunk that I forgot about. I barely realized I was passing out as I began to take off then remembered and opened the door. CO2 will replace oxygen and it is a very subtle yet possibly extreme danger. CO2 can replace much of the oxygen in a well sealed room or house from a properly burning furnace or stove, even a wood stove. I just got through putting a big warning label on a CO2 cylinder I use for emergency tire inflation not to store in the cab or a car trunk. People have died from CO2, mainly from camping with dry ice. CO on the other hand is an acute poison.
As for hydrogen, it's hard to believe a golf cart could generate enough in a normal garage to cause a problem but there is always exceptions. Think of hydrogen like water that instead of falling to the ground it goes quickly upward. It can collect in any pockets that have no way out upward. It ignites very easily and burns so rapid that it creates a shock wave. As for setting off CO detectors, maybe it could be something else in the battery gas that does that? The odor of battery gas is not hydrogen although it is a good indication that hydrogen is venting. Hydrogen is odorless. The odor is probably various sulfur oxides from decomposition and evaporation of sulfuric acid.

[alchemy]

Originally Posted by jclark138

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...j58qKZXidHzw&s
This was hydrogen -

I think the hindenburg might be a bad example of what hydrogen burning is like. I'd like to look into it but I'd bet it was more of an explosion or rip like when your gas furnace lights followed soon by the plastic burning which is what we usually see in the pictures. Hydrogen burns in a quick flash.

[jclark138]

I’m not too knowledgeable about what burns like what, but didn’t the Hindenburg burn “all in a flash” given the volume of gas . . .
Sorry again , but I’m in Northern California, and right now for us the whole **** world is on fire
. . . .

[alchemy]

Originally Posted by jclark138

I’m not too knowledgeable about what burns like what, but didn’t the Hindenburg burn “all in a flash” given the volume of gas . . .
Sorry again , but I’m in Northern California, and right now for us the whole **** world is on fire
. . . .

I was really worried here in the midwest and I don't know how we got by without major fires. I never saw it so dry. I knew it was dangerous. I think we went for a month or more without rain and record heat. It was so dry we didn't even have a fall leaf change, they mostly just dropped before. We had fire warnings but not for as severe as I think it was.

[alchemy]

Originally Posted by golf cart man

It's a well known issue and scary it is just though in some communities you cant charge your cart outside or with the garage open. Not sure where you are in FL but here are some articles from around FL. You may want to show your local fire department maybe they could start a CO2 detector campaign could save someones life. Everyone in my neighborhood has ADT provided and monitored CO2 alarms in the house including one just inside the house garage door.

http://www.bonitafire.org/Golf%20Car...g%20Safety.pdf

http://www.islandernews.com/news/saf...3781fd761.html

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl...206-story.html

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/r...rt-in-sarasota

One of those acts as though it really was CO. That would be some pretty wild chemistry but maybe it's possible. CO can be manufactured by CO2 and high voltage. The key to knowing why is probably about how the detector works. If it just detects flammable gas then yes. CO is also flammable. Wonder if they go off with an unlit bic lighter (propane natural gas etc)? If so that would be handy.

[Sergio]

SB77, there are a few things you can check and a few ventilation options you can implement.

Hydrogen being the lightest of all the elements has a tendency to accumulate in high pockets and to permeate easily if the air is not exchanged.

It does not take much air exchange to mitigate a single cart charging in a large space, if You use an online resource like the one below to calculate ventilation requirements, it takes less than 10CFM to ventilate a typical two car garage.

https://na.bhs1.com/battery-room/ventilation/

If You have a window or location near the cart/charger to install a bathroom type exhaust fan (must ventilate to outside and not attic), You can use a simple "smart power strip" where it senses the charger using power an turns the exhaust fan ON.

If that is not possible there are other options available, specially if you have a home automation hub like smartthings, so instead of activating a fan you could limit the charger to only run if the garage door was open.

Also make sure there is no negative pressure in your air conditioning system where it may be sucking outside air when it is running.