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Old 12-18-2014, 12:03 PM   #11
DaveTM
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

Well, when I look at "Elite Power Solutions" 100AH "Package" here http://elitepowersolutions.com/produ...roducts_id=164 you get the batteries plus a matching charger for a price of $3,225.

Now, if you go to the 200AH http://elitepowersolutions.com/produ...roducts_id=236 your up into some big bucks pricing.....like $6,895.....for that one.

But.....if I read their chart right http://elitepowersolutions.com/docs/...vs%20Speed.pdf and I set my controller to only give me say....a top speed of ten-mph, I should get well over 100 miles (according to them....200 miles) of travel out of one charge. And that's with the 100AH pack. Now, if that's the real case, then the money spent is probably worth it.

But again, I dunno how temp's such as 15 degrees has upon this. But even if that cut's the drive milage to 100, that's more than I'm going to go in one day. Other factors such as how much "stuck in the mud" energy will be consumed, and "how far is this mountain to the top" factor is also a consideration. In addition.....is the 200 mile rating....is that bring the battery down to the "brick" level where it's now worthless? Or is that where it is at the "must be charged now or it will be a brick" level?

Dave
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:09 PM   #12
ncorry
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by sunking View Post
BTW it is Sunking, not Sinking Sinking is my sister. Want to meet her? She is looking for husband #7. She is a rich Morman in Utah. Still has 6 husbands, she just wants 1 more. Th eother 6 are getting worn out and need a break.
HA! Thanks for the info. Sorry about hte misnomer, I fully blame it on the iPhone's screen.
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Old 12-18-2014, 12:50 PM   #13
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

I went the way Sportcoupe did it. I used the Nissan Leaf hybrid batteries ($550 for a 36v 60AH pack). Bottom balanced the pack and use a Quickcharge on board charger (about $250) they configured for lithium batteries that won't overcharge the batteries. Installed a volt meter so I don't over discharge the batteries. I bought a mini-bms system but couldn't get it to work right and have had no issues with the lithiums, just have to be careful not to overcharge.

Increase in acceleration is unbelievable. The Leaf Battery Pack weighs 40 pounds so I lost about 400lbs in weight, that coupled with the lower internal resistance of the lithium batteries lets me spin my rear tires even though I have a high speed gear in the rear end.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post

But.....if I read their chart right http://elitepowersolutions.com/docs/...vs%20Speed.pdf and I set my controller to only give me say....a top speed of ten-mph, I should get well over 100 miles (according to them....200 miles) of travel out of one charge. And that's with the 100AH pack. Now, if that's the real case, then the money spent is probably worth it.


Dave
That chart is for a 3,000lb vehicle using 100 of their 100aH cells. Extrapolating for a 1200lb Bad Boy Buggy using 16 of their 100aH cells at 10mph, I come up with 82 miles. I'd be happy with a third of that.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:12 PM   #15
sunking
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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HA! Thanks for the info. Sorry about hte misnomer, I fully blame it on the iPhone's screen.
No problem, just throwing some fun your way.

On a budget and if you have some fabrication skills go the Calb route. 16 of the CA-100 cells will cost around $2K but there is a catch. You have to also buy buss bars and Balance Boards, a set for each cell. What I have seen DIY EV guys do is use the steel or fiber glass band like the use to secure loads to palets for shipping to band them together tightly then slip them into a sheet metal enclosure. I also seen them use large "C" clamps to squeeze them together in groups of 4 to slide into an enclosure.

For me, I just bought the GBS package, and dropped them right into place, and used corner clips on long threaded bolts to secure it. The GBS batteries have a couple of great features no one else offers.

1. They have an integrated cover. This will prevent any accidental shorting out like being clumsy and dropping a tool on top of the battery. They have enough energy to vaporize a wrench or screw driver and the arc flash and plasma will really mess up you hair and cook skin to a crispy crunch charcoal.

2. They have a 4-point buss bar that uses four screws instead of 1 bolt. Much larger surface contact area and if properly torqued pretty much eliminates loose connections. Being a EE and RC pilot I have an infrared scanner and have never found a loose connection.

As with any Lithium setup there are no wires between batteries. They use buss bars. Only wires used is on the +/- term plates and please use two-hole term plates. If you do that you will never have any issues of loose connections. Not to mention to lead to melt.

Yes it is expensive initially, but less expensive long term because you will not be buying new batteries every 3 or 4 years. Today's LFP batteries have 2000 to 3000 cycles which last about 10 years with proper care.

One note on proper care. You already know not to fully discharge them. But for storing them long term, never store them fully charged up. For storage you want them around 60% SOC. At 100% puts some stress on the batteries. Personally I never charge mine to 100% as 90% is more than good enough and extends the cycle life.

Unlike lead acid batteries must be kept at 100% SOC and recharged after any use to maximize cycle life, don't do that with lithium. Only recharge them when you get close to 80% DOD or nervous. That will greatly increase cycle life as you cycle less often. Lithium does not sulfate like lead acid if less than 100% charged up. Lithium does better if under 100%, just do not go below 20%. You want to leave yourself some breathing room so as not to flirt with fully discharged.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by benjylafond View Post
I went the way Sportcoupe did it. I used the Nissan Leaf hybrid batteries ($550 for a 36v 60AH pack). Bottom balanced the pack and use a Quickcharge on board charger (about $250) they configured for lithium batteries that won't overcharge the batteries. Installed a volt meter so I don't over discharge the batteries. I bought a mini-bms system but couldn't get it to work right and have had no issues with the lithiums, just have to be careful not to overcharge.

Increase in acceleration is unbelievable. The Leaf Battery Pack weighs 40 pounds so I lost about 400lbs in weight, that coupled with the lower internal resistance of the lithium batteries lets me spin my rear tires even though I have a high speed gear in the rear end.
The Leaf batteries, and their cost, are attractive. Can they be configured for 48 volt and more than 60AH? Even if the cost of the batteries double, that comes out way ahead of the turnkey, but, "turnkey" sounds real, real good.
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #17
sunking
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by ncorry View Post
The Leaf batteries...
Leaf batteries are Lithium Manganese. Read up on them.

There are several EV shops selling Leaf Cells for dirt cheap, and there is a reason for it. The Leaf was released in late 2010 as a 2011 model year. The company had several battery warranty claims and found a defect in the battery cells in model years 2011 and 2012. Nissan offered Leaf owners of model years 2011 and 2012 a new battery pack for $100.

You as a consumer cannot buy Leaf Battery cells. You can only buy the complete module. What is being offered by EV dealers is Nissan 2011 and 2012 model year cells to cover some their losses. Nissan sold their inventory to EV dealers for pennies on the dollar, and they disassembled them to get the cells out and resell them to an unknowing public.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:23 PM   #18
UncleJerm76
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Default Converting to Lithium

Good info sunking, possibly saving BGW members thousands! Any data you can provide to back this up?
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

Since no one has responded to my other thread, can anyone point me to a good 48-12 volt voltage reducer in the 30 amp range? Will be running at max a 120watt LED bar.
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Old 12-18-2014, 03:34 PM   #20
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by ncorry View Post
Since no one has responded to my other thread, can anyone point me to a good 48-12 volt voltage reducer in the 30 amp range? Will be running at max a 120watt LED bar.
This is what I use: http://www.cartsunlimited.net/DC_Reducer.html

------
BTW: I replied to your other thread.

Last edited by JohnnieB; 12-18-2014 at 03:47 PM.. Reason: Added comment
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