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Old 12-18-2014, 04:10 PM   #21
sunking
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Good info sunking, possibly saving BGW members thousands! Any data you can provide to back this up?
Pretty easy to find. For example Wikipedia makes mention of it.

Second point is you cannot just go buy a new Leaf Battery pack. You have to have the old pack to trade in. Nissan started selling replacements in 2013 for $5500 to cover their butts for the heat problem failures. Thus why I said Lithium Manganese requires Thermal Management.

You cannot buy new Leaf Modules or Cells. You can only buy the whole pack and must have the old pack to trade in. The modules or cells being sold by EV parts dealers are either the packs traded in for replacement, or Nissan stock packs of 2011 and 2012 model years. Dealers have bought the packs for pennies on the dollar and hacked them up to get the modules/cells out of. Buyer beware.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

Below is my opinion, I am not saying any member here is right or wrong.

I would steer away from a Chevy Volt cells. Not only are they very hard to separate since the cells are spot welded together, they were also liquid cooled as installed in a Volt. The battery chemistry demands liquid cooling. That would be hard to duplicate in a golf cart.

I know Nissan leaf had thermal problems and required thermal management. They were designed to be passively (or air) cooled. No liquid cooling here. The housing the Leaf modules are installed in is weather tight, totally sealed. I can understand why they had heat problems in the desert southwest.

I feel when the Leaf modules are free air installed, as in a golf cart, they will not suffer the same heating problems. They are also under much less load pushing around a light weight golf cart.

For anyone looking at Leaf modules online advertised as new, SunKing is correct, you cannot buy new modules. Everything online are take-outs from something. I got mine from accident Leafs, not factory returns. The battery assembly was not damaged at all. It is very, very stout.
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Old 12-18-2014, 11:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Everything online are take-outs from something. I got mine from accident Leafs, not factory returns. The battery assembly was not damaged at all. It is very, very stout.
That was the point I was making. You are not buying new batteries. Anything you find online is either factory rejects, returns from failures, or salvaged. You cannot buy new cells or packs, Nissan has exclusive rights. Well you can buy new packs, but you must have one to trade in and own a Leaf.
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:25 AM   #24
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This thread has so much great info! Thank you all who are contributing. I'm learning learning learning...
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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That was the point I was making. You are not buying new batteries. Anything you find online is either factory rejects, returns from failures, or salvaged. You cannot buy new cells or packs, Nissan has exclusive rights. Well you can buy new packs, but you must have one to trade in and own a Leaf.
Agreed, that's why i posted to back you up.

Now, any cell can fail, new or used. New can fail right out of the box and it happens more then the EV community would like. Folks that run several dozen cells always buy a few extra in case of premature cell failure. Buying used has it's advantage that all but guarantees no premature cell failure on first charge because they are been in a working vehicle for some time.

I'm not saying a used Leaf cell will last the 10 years Nissan warranties it for either. I have a extra cell in case of failure. The trick is catching the failed cell early before it becomes a safety hazard. I do this with a cell balance detector circuit that costs less then $10. Here's the link to a simple battery balance alarm that I use.

http://www.evdl.org/pages/battbridge.html
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:43 AM   #26
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

Well.....I figure I have another 2 years before my Trojan's are toast. By then you techno guys will have it "wired" to the point where dummies like me will be able to do it as easy as putting batteries in a flashlight.

I don't need to know all of the down 'n dirty details....I just need to know where the plug goes!!
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Old 12-19-2014, 09:02 AM   #27
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
Agreed, that's why i posted to back you up.

Now, any cell can fail, new or used. New can fail right out of the box and it happens more then the EV community would like. Folks that run several dozen cells always buy a few extra in case of premature cell failure. Buying used has it's advantage that all but guarantees no premature cell failure on first charge because they are been in a working vehicle for some time.

I'm not saying a used Leaf cell will last the 10 years Nissan warranties it for either. I have a extra cell in case of failure. The trick is catching the failed cell early before it becomes a safety hazard. I do this with a cell balance detector circuit that costs less then $10. Here's the link to a simple battery balance alarm that I use.

http://www.evdl.org/pages/battbridge.html
I'm fairly certain these Nissan Leaf batteries from Hybrid Auto Center are new, it is where I bought mine.

http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/ind...new&Itemid=605
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Old 12-19-2014, 10:00 AM   #28
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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I'm fairly certain these Nissan Leaf batteries from Hybrid Auto Center are new, it is where I bought mine.

http://hybridautocenter.com/HAC4/ind...new&Itemid=605
It is the factory reject from 2012. The first two model years Nissan had a design flaw in the chemistry. Nissan found itself with a huge amount of warranty claims particularly in the southern warmer states. They discovered the formula the manufacture used was sensitive to heat, and packs were failing right and left. They had the manufacture make the adjustments which appeared in model year 2013. All the packs Nissan had in inventory were sold to recover some of the losses they incurred. DIY EV shops bought the defective packs, tore them apart, removed the modules, and sell them. So yeah they can claim they are NEW, but they are not telling you the modules are factory rejects.

I know that is not what you want to hear, but that is what is going on with them. The Leaf modules are exclusive Nissan. The public cannot buy the modules themselves. You can only buy the full pack from an authorized dealer, must have a pack to trade in, and own a Leaf.

The only other way I know to get around it is do what Sportcoupe did by buying a whole pack from a salvage yard when a Leaf comes in that has been totaled out. First thing the salvage yard does is pull the packs out because they know they are valuable and will turn an instant profit as they are worth a few thousand dollars. Pretty sue Sportcoupe has a thread about his build where he bought a pack at a Salavage yard, tore it apart to harvest the modules and reused in his cart.
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Old 12-22-2014, 08:31 AM   #29
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

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Originally Posted by sunking View Post
It is the factory reject from 2012. The first two model years Nissan had a design flaw in the chemistry. Nissan found itself with a huge amount of warranty claims particularly in the southern warmer states. They discovered the formula the manufacture used was sensitive to heat, and packs were failing right and left. They had the manufacture make the adjustments which appeared in model year 2013. All the packs Nissan had in inventory were sold to recover some of the losses they incurred. DIY EV shops bought the defective packs, tore them apart, removed the modules, and sell them. So yeah they can claim they are NEW, but they are not telling you the modules are factory rejects.

I know that is not what you want to hear, but that is what is going on with them. The Leaf modules are exclusive Nissan. The public cannot buy the modules themselves. You can only buy the full pack from an authorized dealer, must have a pack to trade in, and own a Leaf.

The only other way I know to get around it is do what Sportcoupe did by buying a whole pack from a salvage yard when a Leaf comes in that has been totaled out. First thing the salvage yard does is pull the packs out because they know they are valuable and will turn an instant profit as they are worth a few thousand dollars. Pretty sue Sportcoupe has a thread about his build where he bought a pack at a Salavage yard, tore it apart to harvest the modules and reused in his cart.
I haven't had any problems with the ones I bought and when you buy them from Hybrid Auto Center, they also fabricate a harness to connect all the modules in series so install is easy and quick. I've put about 60 full rounds of golf on mine with no loss in run time (in fact, I don't know if it is the battery chemistry or what, but my cart actually has about 25% more run time now then it did for the first month or so). This was a lot cheaper than the other Lithium options and in my opinion worth it. My last 2 sets of Trojan T105's were only lasting about 2 years (with good maintenance) before they really started to lose juice.
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Old 12-22-2014, 09:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: Converting to Lithium

These "rejects" may be fine for golf cart use. Much easier on them than a full size electric car. Probably worth it. I hope to get at least two more years out of my FLA batteries in my Yamaha Drive before I look at doing a conversion. I hope by then that there are more options available.
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