General questions about the s/g (dynastart) setup.

[WWenz]

Hi everyone,
I've some general questions about the starter/generators, which seem to be quite commonly used in EZ-GO / Club Cars.
I'm using this in some different machine however. I'm asking here however, as it's not unlikely that many of you have experience with s/g's.

As I didn't want to disassemble the s/g, I could only reason about it, using the Club Car wiring diagrams and doing some measurements.

My assumption is that the inside looks like this:
(As soon as I'm allowed to, I'll replace this with a proper Image)

     o F1      o  A1
╔════┼═════════┼═══════════╗
║    │         ├────┐      ║
║    │         │    │      ║
║ ┌──┘       /▀▀▀\  │      ║
║ └█████┐   │ Dyn │ └█████─┼o DF
║    ┌──┘    \▄▄▄/         ║
║    │         │           ║
╚════┼═════════┼═══════════╝
     o F2      o A2

In it's generator phase it is set up as series wound machine.
Starting actually works like a charm when setting it up like that.
That's short one F with one A and connect the battery to the other F/A pair.

However I've trouble getting set up the s/g as a generator.
I've currently shorted A2 and F2.
Started up with connecting F1 at 12V and A1 at GND.
When disconnecting the battery I can still measure about 0.6V between F1 and A2.

The voltage regulator I'm trying to use is a JFT 149.
Theres unfortunatly not much information available about it.
One vendor wrote, it is to be used in positive excited machines.
Attaching +5V or +12V to (+), I can measure +5V/12V respective on DF, which seems to confirm this.

So i hooked up the regulator at DF, which connects to A1 (lower resistance than to A2).
However, just having the regulator connected won't get me established a self sustaining loop.
Hooking up the battery again, the voltage stays at 12V and the battery discharges with > 10A.

My questions so far are:
- How could i potentially set up the s/g as a generator?
- Is my reasoning about the s/g wrong, having two coils?
- How do the Club Cars actually recharge the battery? Does it stay connected via solenoid after starting?
- If so, do they do something to prevent automatic reignition, in case the motor stops?
Can I somehow physically configure the s/g to have independant current lines for starting/charging?
Or would my only/best bet here to have an electronic solution (keeping the solenoid activated as long the start push-button is pressed or current flow is in charge direction)?

[mrgolf]

Are you trying to make it a generator by running it off a battery?

[WWenz]

No it's a setup as it should be in a common golf cart as well.
Just that I've attached a 500cc diesel engine to the s/g.

Starting it up using the s/g with a lead acid battery works perfect, as said.
But I currently fail with charging the lead acid battery with a running diesel engine or generate 14Vdc at all.

Edit: The diesel engine runs at approx. 1krpm when in normal operation.
I'd guess the ratio of the drive belt being between 1:2 to 1:3 so the s/g should get driven with approx 2-3krpm.
Not sure if that diverges a lot from the properties a club car has.

[mrgolf]

Ok the solenoid needs to be a constant duty because it needs to stay closed for the generator to work like it does on a golf cart.

[David Maner]

You have to keep the solenoid energized the whole time the engine is running for the S/G to become a generator once the engine starts. Thats why a solenoid for a starter generator cost so much more than one for an automobile. In an automobile its only energized for as long as the starter is starting the engine then it drops out of the circuit.

ETA: Mybad I didn't see that this was already answered before I started typing.

[DannyAbear]

Originally Posted by David Maner

You have to keep the solenoid energized the whole time the engine is running for the S/G to become a generator once the engine starts. Thats why a solenoid for a starter generator cost so much more than one for an automobile. In an automobile its only energized for as long as the starter is starting the engine then it drops out of the circuit.

ETA: Mybad I didn't see that this was already answered before I started typing.

I still dispute this thinking, My xrt with kaw engine is key start, solinoid is only entergized when key is held in start position, when key is in run position, solinoid is not entergized. The voltage regulator allows for battery charging.

[WWenz]

DannyAbear: How do you have any information about the wiring for your machine?

For testing my setup I'm connecting everything manually most of the time, so I can easier change/test things.

The major problem I have with the setup, described by the others is, that I wont reach a charging voltage of about 14v. Instead the battery keeps trying to "start" (drive) the already running engine.

I'm not aware however if the solenoid has any other special (regulating) functions other than just closing the line.

i.e. when connecting like this directly to the battery, I'm constantly draining it while the diesel runs, measuring about 12 (instead of 14v) between +/-:

   Bat+      Bat-    Voltage Reg.
     │         │     ╔═══════╗
     ├───────────────┼ +     ║
     │         │     ║    DF ┼o┐
     │         ├─────┼ -     ║ │
     o F1      o  A1 ╚═══════╝ │
╔════┼═════════┼═══════════╗   │
║    │         ├────┐      ║   │
║    │         │    │      ║   │
║ ┌──┘       /▀▀▀\  │      ║   │
║ └█████┐   │ Dyn │ └█████─┼o──┘
║    ┌──┘    \▄▄▄/         ║ DF
║    │         │           ║
╚════┼═════════┼═══════════╝
     o F2      o A2
	 └---------┘

[HBR]

Originally Posted by DannyAbear

I still dispute this thinking, My xrt with kaw engine is key start, solinoid is only entergized when key is held in start position, when key is in run position, solinoid is not entergized. The voltage regulator allows for battery charging.

The wiring on your XRT is different then.

Gas Club Cars (DS and Precedent) with factory wiring need a continuous solenoid for battery charging.

[DannyAbear]

XRT is on DS chassis

[HBR]

Originally Posted by DannyAbear

XRT is on DS chassis

Ok.