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Old 04-16-2016, 06:41 PM   #1
rmoss
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Default Lift kit for 2013 G29

Having purchased a 2013 Gas Drive a little over a month ago I have been looking at the options for a lift kit. I at first was looking for about 4" but it seems the 6" is the norm and that there is far more offerings for the 6". There are so many that to me the choice is confusing. I just looked at a video for the installation of the 6" MadJax that uses a leaf spring and new shocks and they instruct to set the wheels to zero chamber and amazing to me, a substantial toe out condition. I have never seen any vehicle in which a toe out setting is specified and do not understand how that can be correct.
After purchasing our cart we found it to be very unstable; wanting to dart side to side. I checked the alignment and found it to be very toe out, similar to what MadJax recommended; after realigning so that there was a very neglegable toe in the cart was very much improved and steered very much neutral and easy to drive.
My question is; is the MadJax video in error; or is it normal for a lifted cart to be set with a toe out alignment?
I guess bottom line here is that I would welcome recommendations on what you all consider to be the best lift kits out there. What makes them better that the others. Your help is appreciated.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:38 AM   #2
sr71
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

It depends on how you plan to use your cart. Mine is for bombing around the neighborhood... some pavement, some gravel some grass/woods. I went with a 3" Jakes and 22" tires. The 22" tires give plenty of ground clearance. The 3" lift gets me the tire clearance but not so high to make it hard to get into or tippy at speed / corners.

I liked the Madjax 4" lift but just couldn't toss the Yamaha independent coiler overs and replace with a transverse leaf spring - IMHO.

If I was gong mostly offload I would have skipped the 6" lift and went with a Jakes long travel kit - complete with new coilers.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

It depends on how you plan to use your cart. Mine is for bombing around the neighborhood... some pavement, some gravel some grass/woods. I went with a 3" Jakes and 22" tires. The 22" tires give plenty of ground clearance. The 3" lift gets me the tire clearance but not so high to make it hard to get into or tippy at speed / corners.

I liked the Madjax 4" lift but just couldn't toss the Yamaha independent coiler overs and replace with a transverse leaf spring - IMHO.

If I was gong mostly offload I would have skipped the 6" lift and went with a Jakes long travel kit - complete with new coilers.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:58 AM   #4
rmoss
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

Any ideas on why MadJax calls for a toe out condition? Really seems a bit ignorant but that is just speaking from my history in automotive mechanics.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:42 PM   #5
sho305
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

I can tell you excessive toe out makes a cart wander and slow to respond, while excessive toe in makes a cart darty or twitchy and nervous in steering. You have to account for any change in toe with a load on the cart, it may have bumpsteer and change toe as weight is loaded on the cart. That is the only reason I can see why they would say to set the toe in an odd way. Excessive toe either way will scrub the tires off on hard surfaces.

That said lots of toe in could be more dangerous in a high lifted cart, it will oversteer and lean faster which could cause problems. Newer carts with articulating rears do lean a lot more, Pachanga actually made a roll bar for one.

Far as recommendations the LT lifts are much nicer for offroad/trail riding/rough surfaces and nicer ride. The stock cart shocks on any lift are not going to perform as well (LT often come with new different shocks), though you can change them to atv shocks/etc in some cases. Since its likely you will only lift this cart once, I would carefully think about your uses for the cart. Just riding around a campground you don't need a LT but it does look cooler. Trail riding it works better for sure. Higher speeds you will want a LT more. LT lifts are always wider to stay stable, it can be a problem if you have a certain size trailer or trails you ride as the cart will be wider. If you plan to swap a larger engine in some day and you trail ride, you should consider a LT lift now because you will want one later.

Generally I would recommend you get a lift that fits 22s minimum, way more tire choices and way more common. I would recommend atv rated tires unless you ride sand only. 2 ply tires get punctures much easier and have weaker sidewalls that lean. I would say be careful what wheels you get as you will be stuck with them for some time, so if cooler wheels are only a few bucks more you should go with what you want. Desert type tread tires are better wearing on pavement and still can do some offroading, mud tires are better in mud and other soft surfaces but not as good on hard surface and can vibrate and wear fast. With stock power a heavy tire can slow you down, a heavy tire will have thick tread bars and taller bars, and too low pressure will also slow you down I run 8 to high as 15 hauling loads and always run more in the rears where more of the cart weight is.

Sure your budget has a say too, just trying to point out things you will think about later after you lifted it. If I were lifting a cart I'd look close at LT because I do a lot of trail riding even with UTV friends. I would try to go larger on tires maybe 25s and lift just enough to fit them. Again it depends on your use and future needs for the cart. If you just tool around and see the people next door and don't fly down trails, any lift that fits 22s would do you just fine, though I would check around here and get one that is recommended. Just getting 22s on the cart will make it ride better even with stock shocks, larger tires just roll over stuff better especially atv style tires with a little give as compared to a stock cart style tire.
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Old 04-17-2016, 01:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

Only a guess but perhaps their suspension setup tends to push the arms slightly outward and in this case positive toe will perhaps level out the wheels at speed.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:57 AM   #7
rmoss
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

Quote:
Originally Posted by sho305 View Post
I can tell you excessive toe out makes a cart wander and slow to respond, while excessive toe in makes a cart darty or twitchy and nervous in steering. You have to account for any change in toe with a load on the cart, it may have bumpsteer and change toe as weight is loaded on the cart. That is the only reason I can see why they would say to set the toe in an odd way. Excessive toe either way will scrub the tires off on hard surfaces.

That said lots of toe in could be more dangerous in a high lifted cart, it will oversteer and lean faster which could cause problems. Newer carts with articulating rears do lean a lot more, Pachanga actually made a roll bar for one.

Far as recommendations the LT lifts are much nicer for offroad/trail riding/rough surfaces and nicer ride. The stock cart shocks on any lift are not going to perform as well (LT often come with new different shocks), though you can change them to atv shocks/etc in some cases. Since its likely you will only lift this cart once, I would carefully think about your uses for the cart. Just riding around a campground you don't need a LT but it does look cooler. Trail riding it works better for sure. Higher speeds you will want a LT more. LT lifts are always wider to stay stable, it can be a problem if you have a certain size trailer or trails you ride as the cart will be wider. If you plan to swap a larger engine in some day and you trail ride, you should consider a LT lift now because you will want one later.

Generally I would recommend you get a lift that fits 22s minimum, way more tire choices and way more common. I would recommend atv rated tires unless you ride sand only. 2 ply tires get punctures much easier and have weaker sidewalls that lean. I would say be careful what wheels you get as you will be stuck with them for some time, so if cooler wheels are only a few bucks more you should go with what you want. Desert type tread tires are better wearing on pavement and still can do some offroading, mud tires are better in mud and other soft surfaces but not as good on hard surface and can vibrate and wear fast. With stock power a heavy tire can slow you down, a heavy tire will have thick tread bars and taller bars, and too low pressure will also slow you down I run 8 to high as 15 hauling loads and always run more in the rears where more of the cart weight is.

Sure your budget has a say too, just trying to point out things you will think about later after you lifted it. If I were lifting a cart I'd look close at LT because I do a lot of trail riding even with UTV friends. I would try to go larger on tires maybe 25s and lift just enough to fit them. Again it depends on your use and future needs for the cart. If you just tool around and see the people next door and don't fly down trails, any lift that fits 22s would do you just fine, though I would check around here and get one that is recommended. Just getting 22s on the cart will make it ride better even with stock shocks, larger tires just roll over stuff better especially atv style tires with a little give as compared to a stock cart style tire.
Thanks so much for your time and thoughtful response, very helpful. One thing, however, that I found on my cart that is contradictory to your thoughts on alignment is the fact that when we got our cart it darted very badly; actually to the point of being hard to control. When I checked the alignment I found it to have a toe out of 1 3/8"; after resetting to 1/16" toe in the cart then handled very nicely. I don't understand why this is opposite of your findings and wonder if this is common.
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:05 PM   #8
sho305
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

Any cart way out of alignment is going to drive strangely, another issue is as the weight of the cart moves or leans side to side with tires pointing in different directions, it will make the cart steer in different directions. My description should have said if your toe is slightly in or out it will tend to do that, for when you fine tune the toe. I test ran up a road many times and kept adjusting mine to get it just where I wanted it, and that is what it acted like with more toe in or out by less than 1/4" difference at the tire. But my arms have a lot of angle due to my old home brew lift, so my cart is more sensitive to toe, and why I had to be so careful adjusting it. I lifted it before people sold lifts. If your toe was off over 1" that is huge. Who ever did that, don't let them touch your cart again. I have done the toe on cars this same way, it takes a while, much easier to have it done.
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Old 04-20-2016, 01:14 PM   #9
BigEd358
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

Just a couple of thoughts regarding adjusting the toe-in, based on my experience with lifting my 1979 G1 and 2008 G29.

With each lift kit I've installed, I take a long piece of 1 x 1 square stock tubing and strap it to the rear tire so it's flush with the side wall of the tire (front and rear). It's important the tubing is straight, not bowed and extends past the rear wheel and front completely. I disconnect the tie rod end and strap the square tube to the front wheel so it's flush to the side wall. At that point it's fairly straight. Then adjust the tie-rod to fit back on the spindle. While this isn't an exact science, it works very well. Some fine tuning is always needed but this is a better solution that trying to eyeball it. I haven't experienced any abnormal tire wear or handling issues. BTW, I used the Jakes 6" spindle lift kit on my G29. Works very well for running around the camp grounds and off road.
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Old 04-20-2016, 05:14 PM   #10
rmoss
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Default Re: Lift kit for 2013 G29

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd358 View Post
Just a couple of thoughts regarding adjusting the toe-in, based on my experience with lifting my 1979 G1 and 2008 G29.

With each lift kit I've installed, I take a long piece of 1 x 1 square stock tubing and strap it to the rear tire so it's flush with the side wall of the tire (front and rear). It's important the tubing is straight, not bowed and extends past the rear wheel and front completely. I disconnect the tie rod end and strap the square tube to the front wheel so it's flush to the side wall. At that point it's fairly straight. Then adjust the tie-rod to fit back on the spindle. While this isn't an exact science, it works very well. Some fine tuning is always needed but this is a better solution that trying to eyeball it. I haven't experienced any abnormal tire wear or handling issues. BTW, I used the Jakes 6" spindle lift kit on my G29. Works very well for running around the camp grounds and off road.
That doesn't work with a 2013 because the back wheel spread is 4" wider than the front; but I guess you could parallel the front tire to the tubing and get the same results. That in a way, is like the post on alignment I just made using a center line of cart for a reference point.
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