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Old 04-06-2019, 04:51 PM   #11
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

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Originally Posted by rockfordpi View Post
Pack Voltage is 44.8 volts, amps have fallen to 8 amps after charging all day and all night last night. Individual batteries run from 7.43 to 7.48 volts.
Stay below 8.3V per battery, or about 50V for the pack.

Sounds like it is getting there.

You sure those are only 178AH?
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:27 AM   #12
rockfordpi
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Stay below 8.3V per battery, or about 50V for the pack.

Sounds like it is getting there.

You sure those are only 178AH?
The label says 178ah. They are 6 volt US, but have same footprint as (or close to) a 12 volt. These are the biggest 6 volt I have ever seen.

I just hate to recycle a set of batteries with 90 minute draw down, but just not sure how and what to do about charge. It actually may be a good thing that I have a manual charger with 12 hour timer as I am not sure if a stock automatic charger would ever get there.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

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Originally Posted by rockfordpi View Post
The label says 178ah. They are 6 volt US, but have same footprint as (or close to) a 12 volt. These are the biggest 6 volt I have ever seen.

I just hate to recycle a set of batteries with 90 minute draw down, but just not sure how and what to do about charge. It actually may be a good thing that I have a manual charger with 12 hour timer as I am not sure if a stock automatic charger would ever get there.
Is that 178AH at the 20hr rate or something less?

For the most part, the storage capacity (AH rating) of a lead-acid battery is determined by the square footage of the plates along with the concentration of acid in the electrolyte and all lead-acid batteries are made up of a series of 2V cells. 6V cart batteries and 8V cart batteries are in packaged in about the same sized box, so the 2V cells in the 8V battery are roughly 3/4 the size of those in a 6V battery and the standard AH of a 6V is about 225AH while the standard AH of an 8V is 170AH, or about 3/4 the rate which matches 3/4 the size.

The 6V battery you have is about the size of a 12V battery, so it has half the number of cells and each cell is twice as big. That means twice the AH and a standard 12V battery has about 150AH, so the big 6V battery ought to have upwards of 300AH, give or take a bit. (Standard 12V is in a larger box than standard 6V, so AH are greater than half)

It may be the 178AH is at a lower number of hours than the 20hr rate we typical use in this forum.

I suspect you have some of the US 250 family of batteries, maybe larger. Depends on the dimensions. The 250 family is the tallest I think would fit under the seat.

Here are two .pdf files (different color cases on older one) of the USB 250 family and a couple .jpg of some other USB capacity at different hour rates and sizes
Attached Images
File Type: jpg US Battery products.jpg (624.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg US Battery AH capacity.jpg (439.6 KB, 0 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf usb_250_group_data_sheet_2017.2.pdf (1.22 MB, 0 views)
File Type: pdf usb_250_group_web_2015b(2).pdf (605.3 KB, 0 views)
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Is that 178AH at the 20hr rate or something less?

For the most part, the storage capacity (AH rating) of a lead-acid battery is determined by the square footage of the plates along with the concentration of acid in the electrolyte and all lead-acid batteries are made up of a series of 2V cells. 6V cart batteries and 8V cart batteries are in packaged in about the same sized box, so the 2V cells in the 8V battery are roughly 3/4 the size of those in a 6V battery and the standard AH of a 6V is about 225AH while the standard AH of an 8V is 170AH, or about 3/4 the rate which matches 3/4 the size.

The 6V battery you have is about the size of a 12V battery, so it has half the number of cells and each cell is twice as big. That means twice the AH and a standard 12V battery has about 150AH, so the big 6V battery ought to have upwards of 300AH, give or take a bit. (Standard 12V is in a larger box than standard 6V, so AH are greater than half)

It may be the 178AH is at a lower number of hours than the 20hr rate we typical use in this forum.

I suspect you have some of the US 250 family of batteries, maybe larger. Depends on the dimensions. The 250 family is the tallest I think would fit under the seat.

Here are two .pdf files (different color cases on older one) of the USB 250 family and a couple .jpg of some other USB capacity at different hour rates and sizes
I am sorry, 178 was minutes at 75 amps. They are the 250hc x2 with 280AH.

After charging all day today, they are now taking about 8 amps

Obviously the charger has put out more energy over the charge time than the batteries can hold and I know chargers, even on new batts, are not 100% efficient. I am guessing those excess amps were lost as heat?

The key question for me is when do I stop charging?

BTW, these are in an older sub $1000 cart I am putting together for someone who does not have a lot of $ , but needs a cart to get around. Equally important for me is that this is a learning opportunity and I greatly appreciate everyone here (especially JB) who is sharing their knowledge.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

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Originally Posted by rockfordpi View Post
I am sorry, 178 was minutes at 75 amps. They are the 250hc x2 with 280AH.

After charging all day today, they are now taking about 8 amps

Obviously the charger has put out more energy over the charge time than the batteries can hold and I know chargers, even on new batts, are not 100% efficient. I am guessing those excess amps were lost as heat?

The key question for me is when do I stop charging?

BTW, these are in an older sub $1000 cart I am putting together for someone who does not have a lot of $ , but needs a cart to get around. Equally important for me is that this is a learning opportunity and I greatly appreciate everyone here (especially JB) who is sharing their knowledge.
With the single stage charger with 12hr timer you've been using, stop charging when the on-charge voltage reaches 2.60VPC (Volts per Cell) or 46.8V for a 36V pack.

Attached is US Battery's charging specs for a single stage charger and a SoC chart for US Battery brand deep-cycle lead-acid wet-cell batteries.

Check the voltage about 12 hours after the charger is disconnected and if it is pretty close to the 100% SoC voltage listed, just recharge after each use for a few hours. If the voltage is less than about 90% on the SoC chart, charge them repeatedly for about 4 hours at a time for a few days and check again.



Sounds like this cart is going to be an OPDMD (Other Power-Driven Mobility Device) for someone that doen't get around very well. Technically, that is how my cart is used, in parks in other areas where the distances I need to travel is further than the few dozen yards I can walk.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg US Battery - Charge Specs - 1-Stage.JPG (105.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg USB SoC 36-42-48V.jpg (176.8 KB, 0 views)
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
With the single stage charger with 12hr timer you've been using, stop charging when the on-charge voltage reaches 2.60VPC (Volts per Cell) or 46.8V for a 36V pack.

Attached is US Battery's charging specs for a single stage charger and a SoC chart for US Battery brand deep-cycle lead-acid wet-cell batteries.

Check the voltage about 12 hours after the charger is disconnected and if it is pretty close to the 100% SoC voltage listed, just recharge after each use for a few hours. If the voltage is less than about 90% on the SoC chart, charge them repeatedly for about 4 hours at a time for a few days and check again.



Sounds like this cart is going to be an OPDMD (Other Power-Driven Mobility Device) for someone that doen't get around very well. Technically, that is how my cart is used, in parks in other areas where the distances I need to travel is further than the few dozen yards I can walk.
Yes, will be a OPDMD.

After resting for 12 hours, pack show 38.4 volts, which is .1 from full charge per your attachment. When I turn charger back on, it is charging at 44.1 volts at around 15 amps.

Thanks for those attachments, helps me a lot, I am slowly beginning to get it.
BTW, one of the attachment says float time is unlimited. Does that mean this type charger basically has a float mode inherent in its design?
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Old 04-09-2019, 12:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

They're getting close to 100% SoC and that is a good sign. Of course, being old batteries they'll have less than the 280AH capacity they had when newly broken in, so the runtime might not be very long and you'll have to do a couple test runs to find out how far the cart will go on single charge. Suggest you friend carry a cellphone with them when using it.

No, the old charger doesn't do float charging and 8A is probably a bit much to be considered trickle charging.

A float charge is as a constant voltage charge that is above the 100% SoC at-rest voltage and below the gassing on-charge voltage. USB recommends a regulated voltage at 2.17VPC, which is a bit over 39V. The amp flow is allow to float at whatever level is needed to offset the self-discharge rate and any parasitic discharge that is occurring. For instance, sepex and AC controllers stay in a standby mode whenever the battery pack is connected, as do many voltage reducers, so the float charger supplies that amp flow as well as the self-discharge rat to maintain the regulated voltage.

Trickle chargers are amp limited chargers and only put out few amps, however the on-charge volts are not regulated or limited, so the pack voltage can climb to abnormally high levels, depending on battery size.

In case you don't have it, attached is a ADA publication that mentions a golf cart as a OPDMD. I keep a copy in my cart, but I display a handicap placard on the cart and haven't had to show it to anybody yet. Of course the only places I take my cart are outdoors.
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File Type: pdf opdmd.pdf (2.57 MB, 0 views)
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Old 04-09-2019, 01:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

Thanks for the ADA info, great info to share and I will pass that along.

When I checked later this AM, amp draw was down to 5 amps which is lowest I have seen.

No, certainly do not expect anywhere near new run time, but if I can get 40% to half out of those, it will be a win.

As I mentioned earlier, I got 90 minutes discharge time at 75 amps, but a lot of that time was at the lower range of voltage and I am guessing the cart may stop running long before full discharge.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: Batteries Charging at 10 amps for 24 hours

A factory 75A runtime test is done at 80°F and a constant current of 75A is drawn until the under-load voltage drops to 12.75VPC, which is 31.5V for a 36V pack. If you did your runtime test at less than 80°F, the runtime might be a little longer than 90 minutes.

However, 90 minutes is about half of the rated test, so your goal may have been reached and will likely get better.

Typically, we don't discharge golf cart batteries below 50% SoC, so you might get 30 to 45 minutes pedal time. Only way to find out is drive it.
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