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Old 06-17-2018, 12:06 AM   #1
General_Lee
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Default Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

I guess this is a what would you do type of question. I bought a 2010 Txt 48 a couple months ago and I've been upgrading a lot of things ie alltrax controller, 4g cables, HD solenoid etc etc.

Long story short I examined my battery pack the other night and found out that it's equipped with (6) 8v Trojan t-875's ranging from year 2010 - 2017. A couple of these are 8 years old :(

I tested all of them via the voltage meter and they all test out pretty good. The 2010's obviously are the worst showing a full charge of 8.47 I don't currently have any issues they hold a solid charge and I rip around the neighborhood terrorizing everyone just fine.

My question is... Being that these are very expensive batteries with about half being only 1-2 years old would you scrap the whole lot when they start to fail? It seems foolish to only upgrade a couple batteries at a time, but like I said they're still a few with a lot of life left.

I'm lost as how to address this when these 2010s kick the can, which they should have many moons ago anyway... Lol
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:22 AM   #2
crash test dummy
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

tested out "pretty" good today ??
10 year old bats ... driive down to store have to get towed home
yea best to get a whole pack and know that they will last for years
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:15 AM   #3
duder1982
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

I had the same dilemma, however I work for a company that has batteries available. when a machine such as a scissor lift has at least one bad battery, we replace the whole pack. if not, those three that have deteriorated will rob the new one of its power. causing it to prematurely fall. Now to my point, I can take those three and replace three of the worse off and continue to run all summer without issues and any cost.

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Old 06-17-2018, 12:39 PM   #4
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

Replacing all batteries in the pack at the same time is best, but there is some wiggle room since you already have a mixed pack.

I'd replace the older T-875 batteries with Trojan 8V black box batteries (or similar economy grade Trojan clone) as needed and then replace all of them with a matched set of T875 (or better) when the newer ones need replacement.

The useful lifespan of the 2017 batteries has already been reduced by being charged and discharged in an unbalanced pack, but you might be able to get another two years, or so, out of them. Now is the time to start saving for a complete set of new batteries.

------------
The at-rest voltage of 8.47V indicates the 2010 batteries are taking a fairly good charge (better than 95%), but the true tests of their health is how much the voltage drops under load, and what the at-rest voltage is after a trip.

The at-rest after a trip of several miles is easy to do. Just wait about 30 minutes after the cart stops and measure the voltages. The difference in individual at-rest voltages ought to be the same before and after the trip, but they probably won't be because the older batteries won't have the same storage capacity as the newer ones.

The under load voltage drop tests are harder to do. If you have a DVM with a Min/Max function, it isn't quite as hard.

Find a suitable hill and write down the the start voltage and the lowest voltage reached during full throttle acceleration up that hill from a standstill for the battery pack and then for each battery individually. (Let batteries rest the same amount of time between test runs)

Subtract the lowest voltage reached from the start voltage and you get the voltage drop.
The batteries with the greatest voltage drop are the sicker ones.
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File Type: jpg Trojan 8V Black Box Battery.JPG (119.0 KB, 0 views)
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

JOHNNIE .. great post ... as always
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:48 PM   #6
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

Attached is a picture of my cart on the incline I use for load testing its batteries. If you have a protractor handy, you can figure out what the grade is.

It's not the steepest around by any means, but it's within a mile of my place and seldom used, so I can do my testing without being distracted by traffic.

IIRC, it's less than 15°, but in the neighborhood of 400A is drawn from the battery pack when I do a max effort acceleration from a standstill on it.

Since the actual voltage measured isn't very critical and I have two DVMs with Min/Max function, it only takes me four test runs (Seven 6V batteries and pack total). After each run, I return to the same starting point, then record the meter readings and do the math (Min subtracted from Max) while the batteries are recovering.

I haven't checked this summer yet, but my 4 Y.O. batteries seem to be getting a little tired, so I'm tossing $$ in a Mason Jar every time my Social Security check gets deposited.
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Old 06-17-2018, 10:47 PM   #7
General_Lee
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

Thanks Johnnie. You're a true asset
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:44 PM   #8
orangeman6
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Default Re: Old batteries / new batteries same pack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Attached is a picture of my cart on the incline I use for load testing its batteries. If you have a protractor handy, you can figure out what the grade is.

It's not the steepest around by any means, but it's within a mile of my place and seldom used, so I can do my testing without being distracted by traffic.

IIRC, it's less than 15°, but in the neighborhood of 400A is drawn from the battery pack when I do a max effort acceleration from a standstill on it.

Since the actual voltage measured isn't very critical and I have two DVMs with Min/Max function, it only takes me four test runs (Seven 6V batteries and pack total). After each run, I return to the same starting point, then record the meter readings and do the math (Min subtracted from Max) while the batteries are recovering.

I haven't checked this summer yet, but my 4 Y.O. batteries seem to be getting a little tired, so I'm tossing $$ in a Mason Jar every time my Social Security check gets deposited.

I’d be totally in for throwing a couple of bucks into the johnnieb new battery pack jar. He saves people here big $ everyday with his posts.
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