07-04-2021, 09:45 PM | #1 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 269
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Oh no, What Now!?
I’m hoping the brain trust can guide me through another golf cart dilemma.
My thought is my solenoid went bad. Does the brain trust agree with my diagnosis? Here is the back story to help you decide. . . Today my son and I were cruising the marina in our 2006 ACG H3 (Club Car DS and Precedent parts). Everything was going well. 6 miles into the ride the cart shuddered as if the brakes locked up, only for a second. We were traveling 15 mph, level flat paved road, maybe 300 pounds of passengers and the batteries were at 80%. I immediately headed the 1/2 mile back home with no observable problems. Got to the garage, backed it in and hooked up the Delta Q charger. 4 hours later I returned to the cart for another drive. The charger indicated full charge, verified by the onboard voltmeter which registered 51.4 volts (48 volt cart). Here is where the trouble began . . . I put the key in, turned it to the right, I heard the solenoid click, then other popping sounds coming from behind me, the volt meter (directly wired to the positive and negative battery terminals) went hay wire. The voltage indicated went to 34v then 42, then 32, then 39, the display flickered then went black. I turned off the cart and removed the key. The volt meter has an on off switch on it. I attempted to turn it back on, nothing. Immediately I looked for smoke or smell. Nothing. I got a volt meter and checked each battery individually. Each of the 6 eight volt batteries registered either 8.6 or 8.7 volts. The entire pack registered 51.4 volts. I tried to turn on the volt meter again and it turned on normally registering 51.4 volts. I put the key back in turned it on NO Solenoid click, and the volt meter went haywire again as it did before, eventually going black. I removed the positive wire going to the volt meter and rechecked all the batteries. The batteries indicated voltages either 8.6 or 8.7 with a total voltage 51.4. I put the key in again and turned it NO solenoid click. With the help of a friend we tried to check the voltage at the solenoid as we turned the key, voltage was erratic 32 v, 24v 8v etc. With the key on we checked for voltage at the FSIP controller (500a), no voltage going into the controller. At this point I disconnected the positive and negative battery cables and removed the solenoid thinking this is the problem. What do you guys think? If you think I do need to replace the solenoid, which model solenoid do I have? It looks like a Curtis, but there are no markings on it. Below are some photos of my set up. Thanks for your insight. |
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07-04-2021, 10:21 PM | #2 |
Nincompoop village idiot
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,625
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
Off hand, I’d say you need to do more testing before condemning any parts. Check connections, cables, etc. use an actual meter on the battery pack when everything wigs out. The fact the volt meter on the dash, hardwired direct to the pack goes nuts and reads all over the place leads me to believe there’s a bad connection somewhere. There’s a difference between resting voltage and loaded voltage. All it takes is one strand of wire connecting all the batteries to read 48v. But when you hit the pedal there’s FAR to much resistance with the heavy load on the pack for that one strand of wire, so voltage drops quickly, things get hot, and bad things happen. I think you’ll find this is your root cause.
That said, solenoids are pretty robust. It is probably fine. But they require at least about 44v or so to activate so if the voltage went low, it won’t click. However, the controller is not so forgiving. Hopefully it is okay. But it’s not uncommon for low voltage and bad connections or bad batteries to smoke controllers (back to the single strand of wire comparison). |
07-04-2021, 10:27 PM | #3 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 269
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
The batteries were/are at 100%. I’m not sure if this helps but there was no reverse buzzer after everything went haywire. I did completely disconnect the dash voltmeter and verify voltage at the battery pack at 51.4v.
. . . also, if the solenoid were good and the controller bad, wouldn’t you still hear the click of the solenoid when you turn the key? Also wouldn’t you also hear the reverse buzzer if the solenoid were good, controller bad? Connections look ok . . . but I will go over them again. |
07-05-2021, 12:23 AM | #4 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: near Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
From the looks of it, your solenoid could be a Albright SW180 or SW200 ... also known in the USA as a Curtis Albright ... that is if it is an original part ... otherwise it could also be a Chinese knock SW180 or SW 200. Normally the Albright or Curtis Albright equipment has a label on it that identifies the manufacturer and model number ... the knock off's not so much.
Have a look at the SW180 and SW200 dimensions shown in the attached documents and compare to your solenoid to identify what style you have. Since you have it out of your cart, you might as well bench test your solenoid to find out if it is functional. From the wiring diagram (attached) found at https://acgcars.us/ManualsACG.html, it looks like your solenoid is activated using 48 volts. If you have a different wiring diagram for your cart, use it instead to confirm your activation voltage. Remove the resistor from your solenoid for bench testing. If your solenoid does not bench test, then it will have to be replaced. Also check out your key switch as over time they can go wonky ... I recently had to replace my key switch on my 1998 Cushman due to intermittent operation. You will also want to check the fuse that is in-line to your key switch and the fuse that is in front of your solenoid. Have a look at the ACG link above for other troubleshooting tips. Note also that the resistor on your solenoid appears to be installed BELOW the high amperage cables. All high amperage cabling should be installed in direct contact to the devices involved (Solenoid, Controller, Fwd-Rev Contactors, Motor, etc) with other low amperage connection stacked above the high amperage cable. This will minimize the resistance in the high amperage circuits. |
07-05-2021, 04:18 AM | #5 |
Gone Insane
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 14,214
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
Check your battery cable connections. Sounds like something making poor connection in there.
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07-05-2021, 08:18 AM | #6 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 269
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
Thanks guys for the input. . . here is some additional info.
The suspect solenoid has no markings/identification on it at all. It appears to be an Albright/Curtis SW 180 (max load 200a) based on ThreeCW’s information. I have a few more questions that may be important . . . 1) Based on the data sheets ThreeCW provided (thanks) it has the dimensions of the Albright SW180. My cart has 15” tires, likely an upgraded motor (top speed 25mph), and a FSIP 500a controller, is this the right solenoid for the cart? Is it underrated for the cart’s motor/tires/electrical draw? I had a problem with a weird alarm type noise coming from the cart after it was driven for an hour with a full load. Thread link below. https://www.buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=171485 *** The Albright/Curtis SW 180 ( or Chinese knock off I have) has a max load rated at 200a, vs the SW200 that has a max rated load at 600a. Do I have the wrong (underrated) solenoid installed? Shouldn’t I have the SW 200 with a max load of 600a installed? 2) Based on the wiring diagram provided by ThreeCW (thanks again for doing that), I need to bench test the solenoid at 48 v. Any suggestions the best way to do that? I don’t have a 48v DC electrical source available except for the golf cart itself. I’m wondering if a local golf cart repair company would do it for me. The only other piece of the puzzle is that two days ago I replaced the cigarette lighter/accessory plug (12v switched) with a GPS speedometer. I doubt I hacked anything since all I did was cut connections and wire the speedometer to the accessory outlet electrical connections. After the install it worked well. When you power it in, it will do a diagnostic test. The needle will go completely from the left to the right then back to the left. When the problem occurred it did not go through this self test. Indicating to me it was not getting any power. Thanks again guys for your help. EDIT: Using information from one of our site’s sponsors, Cartsunlimited, it may indeed appear that my solenoid was mismatched. It says the SW180 “200 amp continuous 800 amp peak rating with magnetic break out Use with 300 & 400 amp controllers 1/4 spade and 5/16ths connections” As for the SW200 it says “Use with 500 amps and bigger controllers.” https://www.cartsunlimited.net/solenoids.html I’m using a 500a FSIP/GE controller. I’m thinking this may be significant. |
07-05-2021, 02:00 PM | #7 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 269
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Is this significant?
I was looking at the suspect solenoid.
It does not appear to have a diode. The Controller is a 500a FSIP made in 2013. Could the lack of a diode be the reason for a solenoid failure? |
07-05-2021, 03:28 PM | #8 | |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: near Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Is this significant?
Quote:
See the attachment for everything you want to know about solenoids ... and more. |
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07-05-2021, 04:08 PM | #9 | |
Bonafide Nincompoop
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Charlottesburg Va
Posts: 8,987
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
Second MCs suggestion. Bad cable or loose connection. Are your cable ends crimped or soldered?
On Which side of the solenoid were you measuring voltage? If that was on the battery side that points to a bad connection. A bad solenoid will should cause the voltmeter on the dash to go crazy, but that depends where the voltmeter is getting it’s power from. Quote:
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07-05-2021, 04:09 PM | #10 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 269
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Re: Oh no, What Now!?
Thanks ThreeCW for the info. It’s a good read.
Based on what I’m researching and experienced I’m leaning towards a bad solenoid. Though it has not been bench tested yet. I’m considering getting the upgraded Alltrax/Curtis SW200 400a solenoid with the diode and resistor. |