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Old 07-24-2021, 12:03 PM   #1
eldrima
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Default Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

These forums have been super helpful but I’m at a crossroads. I have a 2009 EZGO TXT Shuttle that I use in my neighborhood and to drive to the downtown area less than a mile from my house...bought the cart 9 months ago. It currently has a 8x6V Crown lead acid Battery setup that is about 1.5 years old. 12” wheels with a slight lift on it. I don’t put more than 5 miles on it in between charges. My neighborhood is very hilly and speed drops significantly when going up hill (half the time...very little level area).

I’ve been on a quest to improve the speed on the hills and in the last 9 months put in a Plumb Quick Black Widow high torque motor. The gain was negligible. I then upgraded the Alltrax 400A AXE controller to an Alltrax 600A SR controller (48v Max). Again I saw a negligible improvement but nothing justifying the total $1500 I’d shelled out for the new motor and controller.

As best I can tell, I can drop a lot of weight by switching to a lithium battery pack which should help some (probably will cut 350-400 lbs of weight). Only thing is I don’t want to keep dumping money into a 22 year old cart that is probably already exceeded its value with the motor/controller upgrade I’ve done.

I do prefer electric over gas and do want a 6 seater. Do I say screw it and upgrade to lithium or sell the cart and buy something better suited for hills? Of sell, what do you suggest I get (I’m open to buying a DC cart and doing an AC conversion)...have come to realize I may be better off dumping upgrade money into a newer cart.

Few pics of my current setup...I appreciate any advice and suggestions!
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:53 AM   #2
Sir Nuke
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

with the information you provided in your post.....you have a SERIES DRIVE SYSTEM in your cart......but you are still running it in 36v mode....within a 36v system, you won't get more speed out of your cart, even seeing as how you did the proper upgrades to the system.....all but one. you need to make the jump to 48V and this will make the upgrades you have already done come alive as by going to 48v, you will get a 33% increase in both speed and torque.
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Old 07-25-2021, 08:37 AM   #3
meimk
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

All carts, even gas, will slow down on hills. A/C drive would probably make you far happier with this cart. It will still go up hills slower than downhill or flat, but less so than the DC series drive you have now. I understand you've already invested $ in getting to where you are now, but honestly 2009 isn't THAT old to most of us (12 years not 22). As long as the frame isn't rusted out you could do a lot of upgrades to what you have for less than buying a new(er) cart - that you would almost certainly still want to upgrade and personalize.
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

He stated 8x6v batteries so already at 48v.
The first step to find out if an electric cart is performing as it should is to verify the health of the batteries. Doesn't cost any money unless you don't have a digital volt meter which you will need -- less than $20
Put cart on charger and let it finish. Wait several hours and take a voltage reading of the entire pack and also of each battery. Don't have to unhook them. Then attach the meter leads to the pack main + and - connection with alligator clips/tape or something, set the meter on the seat with you and drive up a hill. Note what the voltage sags to. Report all those voltages here.
Physical age of the batteries is only one clue as to their health.
Any upgrades to the drive train, including AC will do nothing if the battery pack can't support them.

Also, are you sure its a 2009? Series carts were phased out pretty much before that and the pics are small but I don't see the tell tale directional lever used by series carts. Entirely possible the limo carts were the last to phase out series electronics. Just trying to cover all the bases.
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Old 07-25-2021, 02:34 PM   #5
bronsonj
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

Nice Cart sir!

I understand your batteries are 1.5 years old, but check them as Kernal said anyway because if there is an issue with the charger or if the batteries are neglected then they can still be shot that soon.

I could not tell from the picture but if you have large diameter tires you can increase torque by going with a smaller tire.

Assuming your batteries are fine and you're staying with your current wheels/tires, then to increase your uphill performance you can either increase your voltage, decrease your weight or switch to an AC drive system. Since you already have a new motor and controller in the cart I doubt you'd want to switch to an AC system now because it'd be another new motor and controller... You can go lithium and save 400 pounds while also increasing voltage and reducing voltage sag. I live in flat Florida, so I can't give you specifics about hilly performance but when I went to lithium I was amazed at the difference.

All carts will slow on hills. AC carts will slow the least by far. Sepex will slow more than AC carts and series carts will slow more than sepex.

What speeds do you get with that cart and what gears are in the rear diff? I'm wondering if they are 12:1 like a regular cart or if you have 14.5:1 or 16:1 in there for better torque. With the series carts you can spin the motor faster than it's designed to so you do have to be careful if you're still getting/wanting high speeds.

A lithium battery, while not cheap, can absolutely help with the hills. You will need to be careful on what you get though since you have a series limo and substantial hills you don't want to trip the breaker (BMS) on a pre-built lithium pack. If you build your own pack that's not an issue though.

If it were me and if I were not comfortable building my own lithium I'd probably look at upgrading to a newer AC drive cart. If I were up to building my own lithium pack I'd do that first (especially if I was otherwise happy with the cart).
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:20 PM   #6
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by kernal View Post
................

Also, are you sure its a 2009? Series carts were phased out pretty much before that and the pics are small but I don't see the tell tale directional lever used by series carts. Entirely possible the limo carts were the last to phase out series electronics. Just trying to cover all the bases.
It is visible on Pic#1 on the front of the pedestal seat. Not the same as used on a regular one or two seat series cart, but same as shown in Shuttle-6 manuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsonj View Post
..........................

What speeds do you get with that cart and what gears are in the rear diff? I'm wondering if they are 12:1 like a regular cart or if you have 14.5:1 or 16:1 in there for better torque.

......................
A Shuttle-6 has a 48V battery pack, a Curtis 1205 controller, 14.7:1 gears, 18" tall tires and stock speed is 12MPH.

The max RPM for most cart motors is 6000RPM which is 21.9MPH on stock tires and gears, but faster on taller tires.

Tall tires also causes cart to slow more on inclines.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:53 PM   #7
jmatlock88
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

It's probably going to be difficult to locally source a pre-owned, yet newer 6 seater with the level of customization you already have. Plus you can recover a lot of your sunk costs by selling your upgraded series parts here on the forums. This will help you offset costs for the A/C conversion.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:59 AM   #8
eldrima
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Nuke View Post
with the information you provided in your post.....you have a SERIES DRIVE SYSTEM in your cart......but you are still running it in 36v mode....within a 36v system, you won't get more speed out of your cart, even seeing as how you did the proper upgrades to the system.....all but one. you need to make the jump to 48V and this will make the upgrades you have already done come alive as by going to 48v, you will get a 33% increase in both speed and torque.
It is set up as a 48V cart (8 batteries @ 6V each).
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Old 07-26-2021, 11:03 AM   #9
eldrima
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Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimk View Post
All carts, even gas, will slow down on hills. A/C drive would probably make you far happier with this cart. It will still go up hills slower than downhill or flat, but less so than the DC series drive you have now. I understand you've already invested $ in getting to where you are now, but honestly 2009 isn't THAT old to most of us (12 years not 22). As long as the frame isn't rusted out you could do a lot of upgrades to what you have for less than buying a new(er) cart - that you would almost certainly still want to upgrade and personalize.
Sorry...I just realized my original post had 2009 as the year...it is actually a 1999. I’ll update the original post. The frame isn’t bad on rust.

I’m thinking an AC drive would be ideal...had I known then what I know now, I would have done the Navitas AC conversion instead of the piecemeal motor then controller upgrade.
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Old 07-26-2021, 11:16 AM   #10
eldrima
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Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 16
Default Re: Cut bait and sell or more upgrades

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsonj View Post
Nice Cart sir!

I understand your batteries are 1.5 years old, but check them as Kernal said anyway because if there is an issue with the charger or if the batteries are neglected then they can still be shot that soon.

I could not tell from the picture but if you have large diameter tires you can increase torque by going with a smaller tire.

Assuming your batteries are fine and you're staying with your current wheels/tires, then to increase your uphill performance you can either increase your voltage, decrease your weight or switch to an AC drive system. Since you already have a new motor and controller in the cart I doubt you'd want to switch to an AC system now because it'd be another new motor and controller... You can go lithium and save 400 pounds while also increasing voltage and reducing voltage sag. I live in flat Florida, so I can't give you specifics about hilly performance but when I went to lithium I was amazed at the difference.

All carts will slow on hills. AC carts will slow the least by far. Sepex will slow more than AC carts and series carts will slow more than sepex.

What speeds do you get with that cart and what gears are in the rear diff? I'm wondering if they are 12:1 like a regular cart or if you have 14.5:1 or 16:1 in there for better torque. With the series carts you can spin the motor faster than it's designed to so you do have to be careful if you're still getting/wanting high speeds.

A lithium battery, while not cheap, can absolutely help with the hills. You will need to be careful on what you get though since you have a series limo and substantial hills you don't want to trip the breaker (BMS) on a pre-built lithium pack. If you build your own pack that's not an issue though.

If it were me and if I were not comfortable building my own lithium I'd probably look at upgrading to a newer AC drive cart. If I were up to building my own lithium pack I'd do that first (especially if I was otherwise happy with the cart).
Thank you and good information! I’ll run some tests on my batteries and report back to this thread. I believe my cart runs about 20 mph on flat ground but I’ll use a Speedo app and get some better data to report when I do so with battery info.

The cart turns a lot of heads especially for a 22 year old vehicle. I have not added a sound system because I don’t want to get further financially committed to the cart. Selling the controller and motor on the forum may be a good route to fund an AC Conversion.
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