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Old 03-11-2020, 12:11 PM   #21
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

I checked on 6-volt Trojan T145 in my area, they run about $175 each. I have 48 volt system = $1400.00 (last about 5 years) If I get the Rowpow 105Ah for around $1,700.00 (last about 10 years), seems like that would be the way to go. Also will have about 100#'s instead of 500#'s of weight. Won't have to check water levels anymore (back 2 batteries are a pain on my cart). Extra $300 seems to be good investment...unless I'm missing something.
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Old 03-11-2020, 12:18 PM   #22
Fairtax4me
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

The number of cycles you get from an FLA battery depends how far you discharge them during use.
https://www.usbattery.com/wp-content...e_life.xls.pdf

This is an expected life cycle chart from US battery showing approximate number of cycles based on depth of discharge. This is based on quality US Batteries brand, other brands may vary. Lesser quality brands will likely get fewer cycles. This is why people very often recommend not to go below 50% state of charge during use of the cart. As discharging the pack that much makes a large difference in it's useful service life.
The less you discharge them, the longer the service life. Assuming you keep them well maintained, there are plenty of other factors that will also shorten pack life, but this can give you a rough estimate.
Someone who uses the cart less frequently, and doesn't go below 80% SOC (which would be 20% Depth Of Discharge) very often, can fully expect 10 years or more from a set of FLA batteries.

As I understand lithium is not quite as sensitive to loss of capacity due to normal discharge. The expected number of cycles is less with higher DOD, but still better than a FLA battery.
But Lithium is VERY sensitive to being over-discharged - being run until the pack is completely dead, or over-charged. Lithium cells self degrade when over-discharged, or when over-charged, and can very quickly destroy themselves leaving the pack totally useless, or going up in flames in extreme cases. Hence the need for voltage cut-offs and Battery Management Systems.
This is something that FLA batteries are much more tolerant of, but at the expense of overall service life.
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Old 03-11-2020, 01:28 PM   #23
jonr3
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

A little over 2 years ago, I bought a new set of T875s. I have already had to replace one battery, and another battery is quickly dying. That's two in a little over two years. And I have been meticulous in maintaining and charging them.

If I could have gotten 5 years out of them, I would probably still use them - at least until lithiums become cheaper. But, now that I've switched, I really like the immediate benefits of the RoyPow pack: 315 lb.weight loss; faster acceleration; storage space in the battery compartment; and I no longer have to worry about checking the water levels. If it lasts 5 years, I'll be happy. If it lasts 10 years, I'll be thrilled!
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:17 PM   #24
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairtax4me View Post
The number of cycles you get from an FLA battery depends how far you discharge them during use.
https://www.usbattery.com/wp-content...e_life.xls.pdf

This is an expected life cycle chart from US battery showing approximate number of cycles based on depth of discharge. This is based on quality US Batteries brand, other brands may vary. Lesser quality brands will likely get fewer cycles. This is why people very often recommend not to go below 50% state of charge during use of the cart. As discharging the pack that much makes a large difference in it's useful service life.
The less you discharge them, the longer the service life. Assuming you keep them well maintained, there are plenty of other factors that will also shorten pack life, but this can give you a rough estimate.
Someone who uses the cart less frequently, and doesn't go below 80% SOC (which would be 20% Depth Of Discharge) very often, can fully expect 10 years or more from a set of FLA batteries.

As I understand lithium is not quite as sensitive to loss of capacity due to normal discharge. The expected number of cycles is less with higher DOD, but still better than a FLA battery.
But Lithium is VERY sensitive to being over-discharged - being run until the pack is completely dead, or over-charged. Lithium cells self degrade when over-discharged, or when over-charged, and can very quickly destroy themselves leaving the pack totally useless, or going up in flames in extreme cases. Hence the need for voltage cut-offs and Battery Management Systems.
This is something that FLA batteries are much more tolerant of, but at the expense of overall service life.
Sergio, are lithium more sensitive than FLA to over discharging? It's my understanding that I should not run your FLA battery below 50%SOC or damage can be done to the batteries (I think the cart will not run if you get much lower than that). Are lithium batteries the same parameter (50% SOC) or can they safely be run down lower? If so, what %SOC is still considered safe?
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:18 PM   #25
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

Sorry, I meant FAirTaxMe (I get you battery experts mixed up)! :)
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:20 PM   #26
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

Dang----meant "FairTax4Me" ---Boy, I need a drink so I can think and type at same time!!
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama Brad View Post
Sergio, are lithium more sensitive than FLA to over discharging? It's my understanding that I should not run your FLA battery below 50%SOC or damage can be done to the batteries (I think the cart will not run if you get much lower than that). Are lithium batteries the same parameter (50% SOC) or can they safely be run down lower? If so, what %SOC is still considered safe?
I think you can take lithium’s to 20%. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

OP thanks for posting the actual size difference. I have thought about dual 105s on some sort of switch vs one 160.
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Old 03-11-2020, 08:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

What I have read says that Lithium lasts longest if it's cycled between 20% and 80%. Avoiding full charge lengthens life. Avoiding full discharge to min voltage lengthens life. THat being said you do not want to charge every time you ride unless you are using most of the available capacity. This is not true for FLA batteries which last the longest when they are kept fully charged. I have been following this plan with my cart and the batteries have now been in there for four years. I do the same for my Ebike batteries.
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Old 03-12-2020, 07:24 AM   #29
Bama Brad
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

Would that explain why the guys that have installed these are getting more distance out of a charge compared to FLA? Taking lithium down to 20% SOC compared to using FLA only to 50% SOC? Or is there just more stored energy in them compared to comparable FLA? (With out getting too technical, please)
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: Took the RoyPow plunge

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonr3 View Post
A little over 2 years ago, I bought a new set of T875s. I have already had to replace one battery, and another battery is quickly dying. That's two in a little over two years. And I have been meticulous in maintaining and charging them.

If I could have gotten 5 years out of them, I would probably still use them - at least until lithiums become cheaper. But, now that I've switched, I really like the immediate benefits of the RoyPow pack: 315 lb.weight loss; faster acceleration; storage space in the battery compartment; and I no longer have to worry about checking the water levels. If it lasts 5 years, I'll be happy. If it lasts 10 years, I'll be thrilled!
How far are you getting per charge? Keep thinking I may just get the 105 since the 160 is not available still
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