Charger recommendations for 48v obc bypassed

[nickdalzell1]

Whatever. it works perfectly fine around here and no one has complained. they refuse to pay full price for an OBC and i'm not about to break my back twisting around a back seat to install one if they won't pay.

I watched it work and it does reduce amps as it reaches full charge then goes to finish rate when it gets to around 5 amps.

I also have the instructions which list the diagrams to work with PowerDrive, to Powerdrive 2 and 3

If you leave OBC connected (not bypass) it won't even charge with this timer

I don't know why there is so much hate for Nivel on these forums but whenever we dealt with the ones you all like such as Bandit and Alltrax it's nothing but trouble

[NoleFan4Ever]

"Whatever"?? You act like the kid at the ball field that when the game didn't go his way, he did not want to play. Sergio is a nice guy and was being polite, I am not that nice. He is a HIGHLY respected member on this forum and has long since been known as one of our E&I Guru's, and not just that we all have a high level of respect for him, BUT more importantly, we don't like information being propagated that has no merit or factual information to back it up other then "Read what Nivel says". You were asked to post the documents and information and you only got defensive. He did post the information, right from the page and referred you to it. Those PD 1, 2 & 3's you say you installed them on, did you notice when you opened them up there was only a transformer, relay, breaker/fuse, and didoes or a rectifier? There were no capacitors, no SCR, etc. Those devices you installed are only allowing you to surface charge those batteries and ARE not giving you a complete charge such as accomplished with an algorithm. You are taking a lot of life out of those batteries so be sure the people you are taking the money from knows what they are purchasing....

And your comment about Nivel in comparison to companies like Plum Quick (Bandit) and Alltrax really shows you have missed the boat in regards to why this site was originally formed.... Maybe you would enjoy the Buggies Unlimited forum more for your particular needs.... Wait, its gone now....

[joesam]

You act like the kid

Thanks for expressing what (I'm sure) many of us felt when reading that last reply to Sergio! We lean heavily on his technical and diagnostic "imagination" and would hate to see it suppressed.

[nickdalzell1]

If what you are saying is true then they would just work like if you fused the relay and would stay around 15 amps all the time and probably over charge the batteries. This timer is intended to take the place of the OBC and also be part of the charger and just makes it work a lot like a Powerwise on an EZGO car, only with a 48V system. I do not see what a capacitor has to do with anything since all that does is give you more amps, as when those fail on any other charger it never charges beyond 4-5 amps.

I really do not understand all the hate for Nivel anyway. No one else has anything remotely similar and folks around these parts are just not going to pay $300 or so for a DPI or $4-500 for an OBC.

I am just offering the OP an option and are not forums meant for discussion and giving ideas and help?

As for brands, i see a lot of promotion of Alltrax and Bandit among others, and we have had nothing but trouble from those, and stopped getting their stuff years ago. However you never see me make bad remarks about them when folks talk about them. Post one thing regarding any Nivel part number and the hate ensues.

[NoleFan4Ever]

Originally Posted by nickdalzell1

-snip-
are not forums meant for discussion and giving ideas and help?

Yes they are and I feel you did not adhere to the unspoken rule of characterized debating. We all have a responsibility to show good character, and I think if you go back and read your comments after Sergio's post and 2nd post, it could have been different. I promise you this, I am ~half way smart in regards to working on carts, but I give him the upmost respect for the knowledge and skills he possesses, as every time I think I am pretty good at something, he will show me something else to remind me I am still a small fish in this big ole pond.... I have never seen him say a cross word to anyone and lets face it, Sergio and David Hicks keep this section going in regards to the technical skills that are needed when the rest of us are out of ideas. Trust me, I call on both of them when I need help and neither have ever let me down,

Originally Posted by nickdalzell1

-snip-
As for brands, i see a lot of promotion of Alltrax and Bandit among others, and we have had nothing but trouble from those, and stopped getting their stuff years ago. However you never see me make bad remarks about them when folks talk about them. Post one thing regarding any Nivel part number and the hate ensues.

Again, Buggies Unlimited is what caused this site to form so people could have uncensored discussions and open speaking, but again, we still want to remain in character. If you have read all the thousands of posts about Plum Quick and Alltrax you have seen they are 2 of the best in the industry for their individual markets. The other big thing you may not know is they are two (2) of the many site sponsors http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/site-sponsors.php we have here so you are going to see and hear more about them because they have a presence here. Not sure what the problem was when you used them, but if you relayed it to them, they worked (or would have worked) it out to an acceptable resolution... I mean hey, there is post after post documenting this.

[mrgolf]

Originally Posted by nickdalzell1

If what you are saying is true then they would just work like if you fused the relay and would stay around 15 amps all the time and probably over charge the batteries. This timer is intended to take the place of the OBC and also be part of the charger and just makes it work a lot like a Powerwise on an EZGO car, only with a 48V system. I do not see what a capacitor has to do with anything since all that does is give you more amps, as when those fail on any other charger it never charges beyond 4-5 amps.

I really do not understand all the hate for Nivel anyway. No one else has anything remotely similar and folks around these parts are just not going to pay $300 or so for a DPI or $4-500 for an OBC.

I am just offering the OP an option and are not forums meant for discussion and giving ideas and help?

As for brands, i see a lot of promotion of Alltrax and Bandit among others, and we have had nothing but trouble from those, and stopped getting their stuff years ago. However you never see me make bad remarks about them when folks talk about them. Post one thing regarding any Nivel part number and the hate ensues.

I don't want to get in the middle of things but I was always told that a capacitor was more of a temporary storage device that helped smooth out voltage spikes. I am just saying this for clarification not to stir the pot.

[Sergio]

There are a lot of electrical principles involved here that you don't understand, so talking about LC circuits, core saturation, etc likely would not help but You should search for FerroResonant Chargers for different explanations.

If You by-pass the charger relay in a Powerdrive "powersupply" unit and plug it into the cart, the current would taper down because of the rising voltage of the battery as they charge and how the battery resistance to charge current increases.

Batteries don't store electricity, they store the chemical elements needed to produce electricity and the chemical reactions that happen inside the batteries during charge that raise the specific gravity of the electrolyte are slow and take time.

If You run the charger wide open ("bulk mode"), the battery voltage will rise quickly and You end up with mostly surface charge, bulk charging only accounts for about 80% of the total charge.

The OBC or any smart charger has an algorithm that at a certain voltage level starts to regulate the current to allow for the battery chemical reactions to slowly take place, that is called the "absorption phase" of the charge.

Every Lester manual I have ever seen only mentions that device being used in conjunction with a "Ferroresonant Charger" because that design provides a constant voltage regulation that reduces the charging current to slow the end of the charging process.

You said You had diagrams showing that timer device wired with Powerdrive2 and Powerdrive3 chargers, please post them so we can see if that is Lester or BU information.

[Sergio]

MrGolf, the only reason I mentioned the capacitor on the previous post was to give a good/easy way to identify the old style ferroresonant chargers.

These charger capacitors are similar to an air conditioner motor run capacitor, around 6MFD capacitance and are directly wired to a separate secondary winding in the transformer.

The filter type capacitors used on the output of a rectified AC signal are typically 1,000MFD+ and are intended to smooth the output waveform.

You also have those coffee can size capacitors used by some massive car audio systems, they are 1,000,0000MFD+ and are used to effectively lower the impedance of the power source so the voltage does not sag during a quick current demand event.

At least members of this site will not be fooled in spending half the cost of a smart charger (and likely installation labor) just to damage their batteries.

I agree that the OBC is not a cost effective part to be replaced, but when it fails, You need an entire new smart charger.

[Fairtax4me]

Originally Posted by mrgolf

I don't want to get in the middle of things but I was always told that a capacitor was more of a temporary storage device that helped smooth out voltage spikes. I am just saying this for clarification not to stir the pot.

Capacitors have many many uses and functions. In a ferro-resonant charger they're typically used to boost output voltage, which lowers the output current as the batteries reach a higher state of charge.
Failure of the capacitor results in lower voltage, higher current, which decreases the life of the battery. I'm sure Sergio cold explain that much better, but that's the basic principle of the capacitor used in this case.

[NoleFan4Ever]

Originally Posted by nickdalzell1

-snip-
I really do not understand all the hate for Nivel anyway. No one else has anything remotely similar and folks around these parts are just not going to pay $300 or so for a DPI or $4-500 for an OBC.

Nick, wanted you to see this as if you have not checked out https://www.revolutiongolfcars.com/ you are not saving yourself the $'s you could for Club Car OEM parts. The referenced OBC cost you mentioned above would scare me too! Check out this cost comparison for the exact same part:

Nivel - https://www.nivelparts.com/product/3...r-new-cc-98-up $461.95

Revolution https://www.revolutiongolfcars.com/p...8-04-ds-series $265

And the debated Timer Relay from Nivel costs $206.95 so for $60 more you could have an upgraded OBC (newest algorithm version) or for $90 more a DPI with a maintenance mode.... (scottyb has DPI's at Carts Unlimited)

In all seriousness and sincerity, good luck with whatever you do....