lifted club cars - lifted ezgo
Home FAQDonate Who's Online
Go Back   Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum > Golf Cart Repair and Troubleshooting > Gas Club Car
Gas Club Car Gas DS, and Precedent golf cars



Post New Thread  Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2019, 06:45 PM   #1
Vinish
Not Yet Wild
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 37
Default 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

I have a 2009 gas Precedent that does the following:

1) If I charge the battery with a trickle charger, the cart will start just fine and will run for a long time. Today, I ran it for 30 minutes non-stop on a long trip and it ran fine the whole way.

2) When I got to my destination (a golf course) after the 30 minute ride, I tried to start the cart and it would not start. Pressing the gas pedal does not cause the starter motor to turn on. I rented a cart to golf, came back after 5 hrs, turned on the cart, and pressed the gas pedal. The cart started and I drove it 30 minutes home without stopping for fear it would not start again if I stopped. I got it all the way home and it ran normally.

3) Once home, I pulled into the garage, stopped the cart engine completely, and then pressed the gas pedal. The starter motor would not turn.

4) I replaced the solenoid last week mistakenly believing it was the problem.

5) I fully charged the battery and had it load tested. It showed 13.06 v and 400 cold cranking amps. The battery spec is for 550 CCA so the battery could be weak but does not appear to be dead.

What could cause these symptoms? If the starter/generator was bad and was not charging the battery, would the cart still run for nearly an hour? Once started, does the engine use any electricity from the starter/generator or does this solely charge the battery?

Does this sound like just a weak/dead battery? Could it be something else?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

G'day,

Vinish
Vinish is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
BGW

Golf car forum Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum
   
Old 12-04-2019, 07:59 PM   #2
meimk
Gone Wild
 
meimk's Avatar
Club Car
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 2,813
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinish View Post
If the starter/generator was bad and was not charging the battery, would the cart still run for nearly an hour? Once started, does the engine use any electricity from the starter/generator or does this solely charge the battery?
The ignition on that cart is a magneto type. In other words the coil produces the electricity it uses to fire the spark plug. It is completely independent of the charging system. So, once started the engine will continue to run without any assistance from the charging system. With a volt meter, check the voltage as the engine is running. it's usually easy to tell. If it IS charging you'll be running 13.5 volts or above, often closing on 15 volts. If it's not charging it will actually drop to 10.5 or 11 volts while running. Keep running & it will keep dropping. While the engine ignition doesn't use battery & charging system, the solenoid does depend on the charging system & will continue to drain the battery. Check that first & let us know. If necessary we can talk you through testing the voltage regulator before you jump to the assumption of a failed starter / generator.
meimk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2019, 09:26 PM   #3
Vinish
Not Yet Wild
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 37
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

I ran the tests shown in the service manual for the starter/generator and found all the starter function tests were fine. I then ran the generator function test. This involved removing the wire from the DF terminal on the S/G, jumping a wire from the DF terminal to the A2 terminal, running the engine at max speed, and measuring the voltage at the battery. This voltage was 18.4 v. According to the service manual, this means the voltage regulator is bad. I then did the voltage regulator test from the service manual which requires measuring the voltage at the solenoid and negative battery terminal and it showed 15.3 v which is the top end of the acceptable range showing a good voltage regulator.

I have only a cheapo Harbor Freight digital multimeter so it is not the most accurate device in the world.

I have buttoned the cart up for the night. Tomorrow, I am going to buy a new battery since it is pretty old anyway. Unfortunately, the date circles on the top of the battery that are supposed to be removed to show the date are all intact so I cannot know for certain how old but it is at least 5 years old since that is how long I have owned the cart and I have never changed it.

S/G tests good, Voltage regulator tests good, new solenoid, and battery tests 400 cca out of a spec of 525. This is a bit of evidence for a bad battery but nothing definitive.

G'day,

Vinish
Vinish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 07:15 AM   #4
meimk
Gone Wild
 
meimk's Avatar
Club Car
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 2,813
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

That last test measuring between the solenoid and battery (-) , which post on the solenoid did you use? If it measure the 15 volts on the large white wire terminal, but less on the large red wire terminal that could indicate the solenoid is dropping out.
meimk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 09:22 AM   #5
Vinish
Not Yet Wild
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 37
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

I used the post that the service manual said to use in this test. This was the post with the large white wire and small red wire attached to it. This was NOT the post with the large red wire coming directly from the battery attached to it. The solenoid is brand new (replaced last week) and the problem being seen is the same as was seen with the previous solenoid.
Vinish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 11:00 AM   #6
CP241
Nincompoop village idiot
 
CP241's Avatar
Club Car
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,625
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

Silly question perhaps, but have you looked at the brushes in the starter/generator? When it wont start, what happens if you turn the primary clutch by hand a half turn or so? Worn brushes can cause very similar problems.

Hook your meter to the + and - battery terminals and try to start it. What does the voltage drop down to when it 1. Does start and 2. Does not start?
CP241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 02:04 PM   #7
Vinish
Not Yet Wild
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 37
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

I installed a new battery. Right now it is starting normally so I cannot check the voltage when it will not start. But it was starting right now with the old battery. The battery voltage with cart off is 12.73 v and it might go higher as this new battery becomes fully charged. When starting, the battery drops to 11.73 v. When the cart is running, the voltage at the battery is about 15.17 v and varies only by about 0.03 v (from 15.13 to 15.17 v) from engine idling speed up to engine full throttle speed.

I have not looked at the brushes. I will try your other tests the next time it will not start.
Vinish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 06:38 PM   #8
Vinish
Not Yet Wild
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 37
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

Wow, what a pain. I tried today to replicate the process. I had to drive the cart for more than 20 minutes before it would exhibit the problem and even then the problem was intermittent. When the cart showed the problem, I quickly removed the seat, turned the cam to maintenance mode, shifted into neutral, and pressed the gas pedal. The cart would sometimes start and sometimes not. As it cooled, it seemed to no longer have the problem at all.

When it was exhibiting the problem, I would press the gas pedal and the starter would not turn. I rotated the clutch on the output shaft of the engine a little by hand thus turning the starter/generator and pressed the gas pedal again but the starter would not engage.

I then put a digital multimeter on the output post of the solenoid and the battery negative post. When this problem was occurring, the output post of the solenoid would exhibit no voltage. Unfortunately, as I held the gas pedal down, the solenoid would sometimes suddenly show the proper ~12.8 volts and the starter would turn.

My next step is to figure out which of the smaller wires leading to the "trigger" side of the solenoid is the power source (the other side presumably being the ground) to turn on the solenoid and see what voltage is on that post when the problem occurs. This is a brand new solenoid so I doubt the solenoid is the problem (possible but unlikely). It seems more likely to be the source of the power feeding the trigger side of the solenoid.

I did notice that when the cart is running, the solenoid is powered and, hence, electricity will be flowing through both the trigger side and the larger power side. The solenoid also gets VERY hot during operation. Is this behavior (solenoid powered when engine is running and solenoid being hot) are normal?
Vinish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 07:34 PM   #9
meimk
Gone Wild
 
meimk's Avatar
Club Car
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern Indiana
Posts: 2,813
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

Solenoid engaged while running is normal, getting notably hot is not normal. Is it possible you got a starter solenoid (like a Ford starter solenoid) instead of a continuous duty?
meimk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 08:42 PM   #10
Vinish
Not Yet Wild
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 37
Default Re: 2009 Precedent - Strange No-Start Behavior`

The solenoid I got was specifically listed on the website as being for golf carts and looks IDENTICAL to the original solenoid which makes me doubt it is the wrong type.

I'm on a slightly new track now. After pouring over the confusing wiring diagram, I conclude the following. Power goes to the trigger side of the solenoid from the battery through the key switch and then to the blue wire on one of the smaller solenoid terminals. The only switch in this part of the circuit is the key switch. The current then flows through the throttle position sensor (TPS) and the forward/reverse limit switches and from their to ground. Thus, there is a switch on both "legs" of the solenoid trigger circuit. In order for the solenoid "trigger" side to be energized, all three switches must be functioning properly. These are the key switch, the TPS, and the forward/reverse switch. I hypothesize that one of these is malfunctioning.

To test my hypothesis, I will run the cart until it shows a problem. I will then put the cart in maintenance mode, neutral, and jumper the orange solenoid trigger post to ground. This should energize the solenoid and the starter should turn. The gas pedal and the associated TPS also have an "engine kill" circuit associated with them. I think that this engine kill circuit just stops the sparkplug from firing but I am not sure. It might also stop the starter from turning. To avoid misdiagnosis, I plan to press the pedal down which, when the problem is occurring, does not cause the starter to turn and then jumper the orange post to ground. If the starter turns, then the problem is not the solenoid but, rather, the TPS or the forward/reverse switches and I can then look at those in more detail to figure out which is the problem.
Vinish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum > Golf Cart Repair and Troubleshooting > Gas Club Car


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Forum
Strange charging behavior, 1993 marathon Electric EZGO
2017 Club Car Precedent with EFI motor - hard start/difficult start. Gas Club Car
Unusual light behavior after adding ultimate upgrade kit to '12 precedent Electric Club Car
2009 RXV gas won't start Gas EZGO
2002 strange no start issue Gas EZGO


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Club Car Electric | EZGO Electric | Lifted Golf Carts | Gas EZGO | Used Golf Carts and Parts

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This Website and forum is the property of Buggiesgonewild.com. No material may be taken or duplicated in part or full without prior written consent of the owners of buggiesgonewild.com. © 2006-2017 Buggiesgonewild.com. All rights reserved.