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Old 01-20-2023, 06:49 PM   #1
Maineiac
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Default 4 instead of one

Ok, no bites on my initial inquiry as to which would be better, one big(150/160/180ah) or two smaller(72ah) for cart power, so now I’m curious as to who might be running 4 standard sized 12v lithium in series
instead of one big single and what kind of performance/range you’re getting?
Any info would be appreciated.
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Old 01-20-2023, 11:07 PM   #2
buckmanmike
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

One big battery is better because you would only have one BMS controlling it. Performance increases can easily be found with a search on this forum. Good luck.
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Old 01-21-2023, 05:49 AM   #3
Pat911
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

Maybe a more meaningful thread title would get a better response. I only clicked on it out of curiosity, not because I knew what you were asking. Anyhow…..

DEFINITELY not 4 x 12v batteries. Plenty on here as to why.

Two 72Ah vs one 144Ah would give similar performance but check the current supply specifications of both setups. I do prefer one single battery, correctly sized to the task at hand though.

Cheers
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Old 01-21-2023, 08:51 AM   #4
Maineiac
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckmanmike View Post
One big battery is better because you would only have one BMS controlling it. Performance increases can easily be found with a search on this forum. Good luck.
Thanks Mike, I’m not necessarily looking for a performance increase as much as real world data on comparative performance between one single big Li battery or 4 12v Li batteries together. I’m particularly interested in range comparison, as in what are people getting for real world range per change ( if they’re keeping track).
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Old 01-21-2023, 08:53 AM   #5
Maineiac
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
Maybe a more meaningful thread title would get a better response. I only clicked on it out of curiosity, not because I knew what you were asking. Anyhow…..

DEFINITELY not 4 x 12v batteries. Plenty on here as to why.

Two 72Ah vs one 144Ah would give similar performance but check the current supply specifications of both setups. I do prefer one single battery, correctly sized to the task at hand though.

Cheers
Pat.
Thanks Pat, in case I wasn’t clear, I meant Li to Li, not Li to lead acid, but yes, I big to 4 small.
Kevin
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineiac View Post
Thanks Pat, in case I wasn’t clear, I meant Li to Li, not Li to lead acid, but yes, I big to 4 small.
Kevin
I believe he was speaking of only lithium... 4 12v lithium batteries have multiple things working against them. Usually the constant power output from each is limited to around 100-150amps (some 100ah lithium batteries can only output 50 amps cont) when wired in a series these rating do not increase, only voltage. Where if you go with say 2 48v 36ah packs you will have 72ah total and twice the continuous amps available as output.

There are other drawbacks to multiple batteries and bms units wired together but those are the big ones.

If your cart is completely stock or doesnt see heavy loads/use you might have good luck with 4 12v batteries though.. People report different results depending on these factors and the batteries used. At the end of the day one pack is just more reliable with less to go wrong. also they usually can be serviced unless they are the glued disposable type.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

The key take away here is that each Lithium battery has a battery management system (BMS). When used together in series or parallel they do not always play nice. In fact many times they do not. This creates problems that lead to early failure of one or more batteries.
One battery with one BMS is always the best choice.
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Old 01-21-2023, 10:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

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Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
The key take away here is that each Lithium battery has a battery management system (BMS). When used together in series or parallel they do not always play nice. In fact many times they do not. This creates problems that lead to early failure of one or more batteries.
One battery with one BMS is always the best choice.
Yes and those smaller rated bms in those 12v batteries are typically only able to deliver a much smaller amount of continuous current Which limits the power output to the controller considerably in some cases.
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Old 01-21-2023, 04:46 PM   #9
Pat911
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maineiac View Post
I’m not necessarily looking for a performance increase as much as real world data on comparative performance between one single big Li battery or 4 12v Li batteries together. I’m particularly interested in range comparison, as in what are people getting for real world range per change ( if they’re keeping track).
Ok, now we get the real question, and I was talking Lithium, not LA in my previous response.

On paper, 4 x 12v, 100Ah 100A continuous batteries will give identical performance to 1 48v 100Ah 100A continuous battery as well as 2 x 48v 50Ah 50A continuous battery. I used those numbers for comparison only, I’m in no way suggesting they’re adequate for your cart.

In the Real World, the 4 x 12v batteries will start to loose capacity as they slowly get out of balance. This is not an if, but a when. It will Start to happen instantly but how quickly it progresses, and when you notice it will depend on the quality of the batteries. It occurs because there are 4 BMS’s protecting each battery and when the first one reaches full charge, it disconnects and since the batteries are in series, prevents full charge of the other three.

2 x 48v batteries initially seems like a good solution as having a second battery gives some redundancy right? Not really. This solution is workable but the belief it gives redundancy is wrong. If one battery’s BMS trips for whatever reason, the second battery won’t be sized correctly to be able to provide enough power (current) without tripping as well. So you’re still without power. It does work though.

1 x 48v battery is the best solution (IMO) as there’s only a single BMS doing what it’s been tasked to do, protect and manage every cell that’s in the battery pack.

As far as range performance, it comes down to the Ah, or more accurately the Wh of the battery, and battery weight but to a much lesser degree. Nothing more, nothing less. Two 100Ah batteries of similar weight will perform pretty much identically. Remember, a 40lb weight difference in the batteries is not much percentage wise when you take in to account the weight of the cart, accessories, passengers etc.

The Ah rating of a battery is directly analogous to the amount of gas in a gas tank of an internal combustion engine.

Cheers
Pat.
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Old 01-21-2023, 07:41 PM   #10
Maineiac
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Default Re: 4 instead of one

Thanks Pat, Augie and Scotty, that’s just the kind of experienced advice I was looking for. Much appreciated.
KB
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