Big Daddy's rebuild- couple questions along the way

[BigDaddyChopShop]

This site has been so great so far helping to ID what I have. All the help is much appreciated.

So, the approximately 1999 TXT I picked up is a running/ driving machine, but needs some help.

Here is the plan: (some is more long term than the mechanical repairs)

Strip out the stereo and lights to do properly- 18/2 shielded control wire is a joke.

New cables (2ga). Yes, I like overkill, do it right once!

Check rear lube, adjust brakes, do general maintenance.

Figure out why my front end flops- on the cart, I know why mine does, lol

Possibly a small lift, this thing sits low. Stick with stock tires however for now.

Paint/ body work, my younger daughter has been wanting a "purple people eater", and has been patient, so this may be it.

I am sure upgrades will be more extensive, and honestly this isn't much of a list. It just needs to get back to "right" more than anything.

There is the issues, i can't keep the kids off it. LOL. Here is the other issue/ question:

When I got the cart, 2 batteries were split from freezing it seems (all the 12v accessories were hooked to these 2 as well suspiciously) Currently, I subbed a 12v car battery (actually tractor battery off my farmall). I need 2 new 6 volters, the others are a year and 1/2 old, is it a huge issue to just replace these 2? Money is tight, like everyone.

The other question, am I doing harm by running with the one 12 volter in the pack? I actually thought about Parallelling it with a second for a week or so to get the AH up, and stay 36v. Hope this makes sense.

New batteries should be forthcoming in a bit over a week, but again, the kids LOVE this thing, (they are 4,6,9,11,13) and I feel its a bit better and safer than the quads we have had in the past.

More picks upcoming, weekend progress only probably, I work too much, and always watching the kids play sports. Life is great!

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[rabbitreborn]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyChopShop

This site has been so great so far helping to ID what I have. All the help is much appreciated.

So, the approximately 1999 TXT I picked up is a running/ driving machine, but needs some help.

Here is the plan: (some is more long term than the mechanical repairs)

Strip out the stereo and lights to do properly- 18/2 shielded control wire is a joke.I personally use 12/2 or 14/2 for all my 12v needs

New cables (2ga). Yes, I like overkill, do it right once!Nothing wrong with using a higher grade of cable, I use silicone jacketed welding wire as it has excellent flexability

Check rear lube, adjust brakes, do general maintenance.Brakes are always a good start when you have kids operating a cart

Figure out why my front end flops- on the cart, I know why mine does, lolGrease the front end and if needed replace the bushings, I find many of these older carts have been neglected and simply greasing them usually helps ALOT

Possibly a small lift, this thing sits low. Stick with stock tires however for now.They actually make a nice 3"lift that looks great with 12" wheels and low profile tires, or possibly some 20"tall all terrain since the kids are running around on it.

Paint/ body work, my younger daughter has been wanting a "purple people eater", and has been patient, so this may be it.Consult a local painter, there is an additive they mix in for painting bumpers that my painter has been using on all my custom painted carts that allows the paint to flex without cracking and has proven to be a great addition to our carts here.

I am sure upgrades will be more extensive, and honestly this isn't much of a list. It just needs to get back to "right" more than anything.

There is the issues, i can't keep the kids off it. LOL. Here is the other issue/ question:

When I got the cart, 2 batteries were split from freezing it seems (all the 12v accessories were hooked to these 2 as well suspiciously) Currently, I subbed a 12v car battery (actually tractor battery off my farmall). I need 2 new 6 volters, the others are a year and 1/2 old, is it a huge issue to just replace these 2? Money is tight, like everyone.some Cart dealers (including my shop) will sell used batteries. Maybe contact your local shop looking for a pair of 1-2 year old used batteries (which are typically much less than new $$......

The other question, am I doing harm by running with the one 12 volter in the pack? I actually thought about Parallelling it with a second for a week or so to get the AH up, and stay 36v. Hope this makes sense. I don't know all the techno babble to explain this, but the bottom line is yes, it is doing harm because the charger is trying to output based on 6- 6v batteries, so your 6volt batteries are likely being overcharged and the 12v battery is likely being undercharged.

New batteries should be forthcoming in a bit over a week, but again, the kids LOVE this thing, (they are 4,6,9,11,13) and I feel its a bit better and safer than the quads we have had in the past.As stated earlier, if you can get a couple good used batteries, I would hold off on getting a complete new pack and spend that money on other upgrades/repairs for now

More picks upcoming, weekend progress only probably, I work too much, and always watching the kids play sports. Life is great!

See my comments in red

[BigDaddyChopShop]

One other quick question-

Building my own cables, Being a long time HVAC tech, (commercial/ industrial) I have always crimped on the connections (for compressors and whatnot) but I see a lot of talk on here about soldering them. I was thinking do both, but I know in the airline industry, solder on lugs are a no-no due to the fact that it can actually attract corrosion.

I have access to a great set of crimpers as I now run the shop (BONUS!) and have everything to do this, no cost (pack-rat too). I plan to heat shrinking with the adhesive backed heat shrink.

Thoughts? I know this isn't a plane, and its not a chiller, but it seems good electrical practices would be universal.

Also, does anyone use the spray on red varnish like Vanguard Red to prevent corrosion at the terminals? Basically spray it on after connections are all cleaned up and together. Masking off the battery tops of course, so it looks pretty, LOL.

I see the electrical system as super critical on these carts, perhaps too much so. I want top performance, and lowest maintenance possible.

Thanks gents.

[BigDaddyChopShop]

Originally Posted by rabbitreborn

See my comments in red

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Couple follow ups-

The charger is rated for a 36 v pack. It has no idea if you have 6-6v or 3-12v batteries or a mixture, or I can not imagine. I could see a possible issue with the fact that the 12v is not a deep cycle, and I know my run time is down from what it should be (the wiring is a mess, and the mis-mash of batteries) but I am getting 45 minutes of balls out, corner-cutting, all grass, yee-haw fun right now. Not that I don't believe you, but I would like the "techno babble" if you don't mind. I have troubleshot electric in chillers, with VFDs, DC circuits in auto, motorcycle, and HVAC controls applications, I think I can handle it.

I agree on the 12v wiring, leaning to a separate battery for this, as I can totally see the kids leaving stuff on. It will all be ran correctly, in conduit of some sort, and hidden. I am very particular about wiring, and this thing is TERRIBLE right now. I had a '23 T roadster, open engine, and lots of folks that saw it at shows and looked it over swore it was a trailer queen, due to the fact that other than the spark plug wires, no wiring was visible. Not a stitch. Just how I like it. LOL!

As for paint, I will be doing it myself. Layed down paint on many street rods and muscle cars, and am familiar with the additive. I did a 79 firebird years ago, and had to use it on the Euro front end and rear bumpers. Good thought to use it here also.

On the used batteries, I see what you are saying, it has Rural king (Exide) in it now. I can get these for $70 ea, and just need 2. Would the break in or "charge-in" procedure be the same with the pair, or is this not recommended? I will not swing a whole pack right now. Not sure who to contact around here, but I have an uncle who was the head greens keeper at a course a few years ago, so he may have a lead.

This is a whole new world, but a lot of my past experience applies, which I love.

Thanks again!

[mutant]

12v in a pack of 6 is a big no no...use vour 12v separate-charge with a trickle charger and run all your accessories off it -or get a converter for the pack(36>12) and run the accessories off it....new batteries in an old pack will have a neg. effect on new batts....prob. not a big deal on a pack 1.5 years old-ASSuming the rest are good-might not be the case with your pack...amp hrs need to match,ect....read up on batteries on here-very important to understand and keep up to speed on batt tech and care,so you get max life on your investment...

if you have kids driving it, i would leave it stock ride height-carts have a high roll center and batteries loose a lot of acid(cart damage)if they roll over....i race cars and i find it easy to run my cart up on two wheels-so the kids can too i suspect-lifting it will make it that much easier....just a thought....

[JohnnieB]

The reason the batteries in the battery pack all ought to be the same voltage, have the same AH storage rating and be close to the same age; Is because they are charged in series, so the same amount of charging current flows through them for the same amount of time.

There are eighteen 2V cells in a 36V battery pack no matter if you package them 3 to a box (6V battery) or 6 to a box (12V battery), however since the boxes are roughly the same size, the cells in the 12V battery have to be physically smaller and size matters since the storage capacity of a lead-acid cell is size related.

Since the cells in the 12V battery has to be half the size of the cells in a 6V battery to fit in the same size box as the 6V battery, it will have roughly one half the storage capacity and charge twice as fast for any given amount of charging current. Since the 36V battery charger is looking at the average of all 18 cells, the half sized cells will be overcharged and the full sized cells will be undercharged when it automatically shuts off. The net result is none of the batteries will be properly charged and the usable lifespan of all of them will be shortened.

If you cannot find two used 6V batteries about the same age as the existing four, buy two new ones that are similar in capacity to the existing ones, or slightly less. Those two batteries will have to be considered sacrificial batteries because they will quickly age to the storage capacity level the other four batteries have aged to and will need to be replaced at the same time as the other four.

-----------
As evidenced by the two batteries whose cases busted due to freezing, drawing current out of the batteries unequally results in those batteries being further discharged and chronically undercharged.

The best ways to power 12V accessories is with a voltage converter that draws equally from the entire battery pack, or by powering them from a separate 12 battery.

If the main battery pack is tapped for 12V, periodically giving the batteries used for 12V a booster charge with a 12V charger will prolong the life of those batteries some, but won't offset the reduction in lifespan completely.

[rabbitreborn]

LMAO..... Thanks JohnnieB...... I was hoping you would come along with the "Techno Babble" to explain it for him..... I know the end results but I suck at explaining it to people.......

[mutant]

johnnie b has awesome "techno babble"!!!

[BigDaddyChopShop]

Originally Posted by JohnnieB

The reason the batteries in the battery pack all ought to be the same voltage, have the same AH storage rating and be close to the same age; Is because they are charged in series, so the same amount of charging current flows through them for the same amount of time.

There are eighteen 2V cells in a 36V battery pack no matter if you package them 3 to a box (6V battery) or 6 to a box (12V battery), however since the boxes are roughly the same size, the cells in the 12V battery have to be physically smaller and size matters since the storage capacity of a lead-acid cell is size related.

Since the cells in the 12V battery has to be half the size of the cells in a 6V battery to fit in the same size box as the 6V battery, it will have roughly one half the storage capacity and charge twice as fast for any given amount of charging current. Since the 36V battery charger is looking at the average of all 18 cells, the half sized cells will be overcharged and the full sized cells will be undercharged when it automatically shuts off. The net result is none of the batteries will be properly charged and the usable lifespan of all of them will be shortened.

If you cannot find two used 6V batteries about the same age as the existing four, buy two new ones that are similar in capacity to the existing ones, or slightly less. Those two batteries will have to be considered sacrificial batteries because they will quickly age to the storage capacity level the other four batteries have aged to and will need to be replaced at the same time as the other four.

-----------
As evidenced by the two batteries whose cases busted due to freezing, drawing current out of the batteries unequally results in those batteries being further discharged and chronically undercharged.

The best ways to power 12V accessories is with a voltage converter that draws equally from the entire battery pack, or by powering them from a separate 12 battery.

If the main battery pack is tapped for 12V, periodically giving the batteries used for 12V a booster charge with a 12V charger will prolong the life of those batteries some, but won't offset the reduction in lifespan completely.

This makes sense to me. Follow up however, So lets just say (for giggles) that you parallel 2 12 volters (still 12 volts) and so now the AH of that "battery" is now larger, correct? Not going to do this, just speaking hypothetically, really.

So the hunt is on for a couple used batteries. This should be fun.

Thanks guys!

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyChopShop

This makes sense to me. Follow up however, So lets just say (for giggles) that you parallel 2 12 volters (still 12 volts) and so now the AH of that "battery" is now larger, correct? Not going to do this, just speaking hypothetically, really.

So the hunt is on for a couple used batteries. This should be fun.

Thanks guys!

It might be closer, but it could also flip to the other side of the storage capacity disparity, which would overcharge the existing 6V batteries while undercharging the paralleled 12V batteries.

Also, they would have to be deep-cycle 12V batteries or the charging time will be very different even if the AH capacity was the same.

If you are interested, here are a couple links to a lot of good battery information.


http://www.trojanbattery.com/multimedia/
Scroll down to the Educational Videos under the Trojan Tips header about 1/4 way down the page.

Also, go up to the Resources tab at top of window and pick Literature on the drop down. Added - here's the link to the literature.
http://www.trojanbattery.com/literature/#collateral

Attached below is a a PDF of a Whitepaper they produced about crimping vs soldering and crimping for high current cables in golf carts. Page-2 (also posted as a JPG) has some interesting thermal imaging

http://batteryuniversity.com/
This place covers all battery types.