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Old 04-24-2014, 11:58 AM   #11
Sumner121
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

When you say you adjusted the throttle up rate... you adjusted it down right? so the controller delivers amps at a slower rate? Am I way off base? This is why buggies gone wild needs Guru's like JohnnieB
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:00 PM   #12
JohnnieB
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumner121 View Post
When you say you adjusted the throttle up rate... you adjusted it down right? so the controller delivers amps at a slower rate? Am I way off base? This is why buggies gone wild needs Guru's like JohnnieB
You're mighty close to being on-base.

The throttle up rate is how long it take the controller to fully respond to an increase in the throttle signal. Think of it as a ramp. The height of the ramp is the amount of increase in the throttle signal. The up rate is the time it take to go from the lowest point of the ramp to the highest point.

Slamming your foot to the floor when the pedal is all the way up, is the tallest and having the Throttle up Rate slider set to 15 is the shortest ramp time. Basically there is no delay and the ramp is a vertical line.

If you want to do wheelies and/or spin the tires, a 15 setting will do it if the drive system is capable of doing it, but you can also break things at that setting. Also, the pedal is very touchy.

At lower settings, the rate of increase is spread over time. The lower the setting, the longer it takes to ramp up, so the motor is spinning some before it gets hit with everything the controller can pass.

IIRC, my throttle up rate was originally set to 5 and it was almost impossible for me to start my cart on grass or gravel without spinning the tires. I moved the slider down to 2 or 3 (don't remember which) and the tires don't spin on grass or gravel unless I want them to. They no longer spin at all on dry pavement, but that is just wasting rubber and energy.

Seat of the pants acceleration seems to be about the same.

Technically, the motor can only convert so many amps into torque and the rest is converted to heat, so my motor ought to run cooler when I drive the cart hard in town (stop signs).
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Old 04-25-2014, 08:16 AM   #13
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

I took the cart out into the woods last night, stuck to all trails I had ridden before with my junk sams club 36v batteries and while I did climb hills much easier, it consistently wanted to drop below 42v. I actually had to kinda feather the throttle to keep my meter above 42 more than once. On one hill regardless of how much I was trying to baby it I wasnt going to be able to get back up unless I let them drop to 41.5 for about 4-5 seconds so I did.

When I got this setup I had talked to Vic at D&D who said when I was done (which I now am) I would be able to pull hills steep enough to flip the cart...sure doesnt seem that way so far. How much stronger do the batteries get with break in?

My run time assessment was very good, I left the house at 50.3v, ran about 45 minutes through the woods and when I got back it recovered to 50.0v, which is MUCH better than what I was getting...but the voltage drop during operation seems pretty sad. I was running 44.5ish volts on flat level ground
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

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Originally Posted by mrphilf View Post
I took the cart out into the woods last night, stuck to all trails I had ridden before with my junk sams club 36v batteries and while I did climb hills much easier, it consistently wanted to drop below 42v. I actually had to kinda feather the throttle to keep my meter above 42 more than once. On one hill regardless of how much I was trying to baby it I wasnt going to be able to get back up unless I let them drop to 41.5 for about 4-5 seconds so I did.

When I got this setup I had talked to Vic at D&D who said when I was done (which I now am) I would be able to pull hills steep enough to flip the cart...sure doesnt seem that way so far. How much stronger do the batteries get with break in?

My run time assessment was very good, I left the house at 50.3v, ran about 45 minutes through the woods and when I got back it recovered to 50.0v, which is MUCH better than what I was getting...but the voltage drop during operation seems pretty sad. I was running 44.5ish volts on flat level ground
The effective storage capacity will improve as the batteries are broken in, but I'm seeing another issue. Battery charging.

If the battery pack voltage when you left the house was 50.3V, you started your trip with the batteries only 86.4% charged. If that was the first trip of the day, you are either not charging your batteries at least every night, or your charger is not fully charging your batteries.

I also noticed in your first post that the batteries were 50.9V sitting, but there was no mention of how long they had been sitting.

To get a reasonably accurate estimate of what the batteries are charging to, they have to sit for about 12 hours after the charging stops. If the voltage is read much sooner than that, it will be artificially high due to the surface charge lead-Acid batteries acquire while charging.

Here is a Voltage vs State of Charge chart for Trojan batteries based on mature batteries given 12 hours of rest. Most, but not all, new batteries tend to read off the top of the chart when fully charged.

You have T-875 batteries, what charger are you using?

---------
BTW: The SoC was 80.2% at the end of your trip, so you used 6.2% of the total storage capacity. If you knew the distance traveled, you could determine home many Amp-Hours your cart used per mile and then estimate how far your cart could go without discharging the pack below 50%.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SoC vs Voltage - Trojan Battery.JPG (56.9 KB, 0 views)
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

Actually I haven't charged them yet, this is the initial charge they had when I got them. I haven't gotten my 48v charger yet...ordered a DPI Accusense, UPS still has it lol
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

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Originally Posted by mrphilf View Post
Actually I haven't charged them yet, this is the initial charge they had when I got them. I haven't gotten my 48v charger yet...ordered a DPI Accusense, UPS still has it lol
You ARE NOT breaking-in the batteries correctly. Rule #1.....ALWAYS completely charge them before initial use. They are nowhere near fully charged when you buy them. You've already started bad habits, as far as battery maintenance is concerned.
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

Don't drive it until you give them a full initial charge.
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Old 04-25-2014, 02:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

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Originally Posted by mrphilf View Post
Actually I haven't charged them yet, this is the initial charge they had when I got them. I haven't gotten my 48v charger yet...ordered a DPI Accusense, UPS still has it lol
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please don't use them any more until they are charged.

New batteries need to be fully charged prior to first use.
No matter what the battery vendor says, the are not fully charged when you receive them.

It is okay to drive a few feet to make sure the cart runs after new batteries have been installed, but much more than that and days or months are being chopped off the battery's usable lifespan.

The initial charge after they have been installed may take up to 20 hours, but how long it takes depends on how long they were setting on the dealer's shelf and how long they sat on the distributor's shelf and how long of a delay existed in the supply chain to the distributor.

The batteries have been discharged down to 80% prior to their initial charge and DPI charger has a 16 hour back-up timer, so it make come up with an excessive charge time error. Just unplug it from the wall and from the cart, let it set for a minute, then plug back into AC power and then into cart. It ought to complete the charge cycle and go into float charge the second time.


The DPI Charger should be plugged into cart at all times, unless cart is actually being driven.

If I'm pretty sure I am going to use my cart again within the next hour, or so, I'll park it next to the back porch so I didn't have to walk as far (I have bad legs), but other than that my cart is on the road or on the charger.

-------------
I see others chimed in while I was typing.

Last edited by JohnnieB; 04-25-2014 at 02:27 PM.. Reason: added comment.
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Old 04-25-2014, 03:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
I see others chimed in while I was typing.
And we're all chiming the same thing.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: 36v vs 48v performance

This is the problem with my only knowing enough to be dangerous. I based running it before charging based upon the voltage reading as compared to a state of battery charge chart I had gotten from here when I bought my 36v batteries...by the 48v reading on that chart and the one above I was above 100% so my dumb a$$ figured they were good...oh well.

Anyway DPI charger came today, its plugged in and charging.

So onto my next confusion...according to Scotty's battery break in procedure for the first 20 charge cycles I should run the batteries down to 75%...JohnnieB says keep the charger on at all times when not using. Is this after the initial 20 charge cycles?

Also how long do I need to leave the cart sit before determining its SOC so as to know if I am at 75% or not?
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