Lithium ion batteries

[Patela2oh]

Thx! Was it hard to build the pack, since that's a "diy" kit?

How do you charge it?

Sorry for hijacking the thread


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[Volt_Ampere]

Building is easy but you had better know what you are doing working with any high current power source. I bought a charger with the batteries from Hybrid Auto. I put the cord / plug on it from my Yamaha charger. It charges at 17 Amps. I built my own battery monitor / display.

[PingEye3]

Here is a picture of a 7 module 58V pack from HAC in a Yamaha as well. There is an on board charger and DC-DC Converter and still has room for your bar.

[DaveTM]

I sent my Son.....who is an engineer....and one of those electrical ones who knows the fancy math 'n stuff that a retired CPA like me doesn't know. So....I sent him the link to the Lithium battery site, and here's what he sent back to me. Now, remember he's my Son.....so he's looking out for me:

Well, the whole thing smells a little funny to me. They brand their site with a bunch of major car brand logos, which I can guarantee none of the major OEMs are actually partners with this outfit.

The other thing that makes me a little nervous about this is some of the connectors they are using. They're not really rated for outdoor use, especially the ones connecting to this battery management system. They look like computer style connectors because they are (im talking about the white connectors, the orange ones are OK) The outdoor rated ones are typically locking and have a seal. (Either auto grade or mil/aerospace grade)

There's a real science to these packs. It's not my area of expertise, but I know it's important to make sure the packs are of "high quality" lithium ion, have the proper management hardware and software, they're installed properly, etc. Otherwise they blow up. (See recent Samsung phone debacle). I don't see any "Nissan OEM" part numbers on the packs (or any other electric battery maker), which I would be more confident about.

I don't know anything about the "Orion Jr BMS". Is that reputable? No clue. The software that runs on that board is critical to making sure the pack charges properly. If not, they'll meltdown and you'll have a toxic mess in your garage, or your truck (or what's left of your truck) Of course it could be perfectly fine and all done to very high standards. Or it could be done by two guys in their garage in Hanoi. I just don't know.

I get you want extra range and stuff. I just don't know how to build you one. And the cart mfrs aren't going to invest in the newer battery technology because they'll never make their money back on it.

It could all be fine, but I'm skeptical. If they had reams of data and certifications from standards bodies, Id be less skeptical, but I'm paid to be skeptical and question stuff like this.

So, there you have it. Another "country" so to speak.....heard from. He is an expert in his field, and I think he pose's some interesting questions and makes some valid observations.

FWIW

[Volt_Ampere]

I too am an Electrical Engineer. The BMS has to be kept dry. Not a problem for me. The batteries are very solid - from Nissan Leaf. Lots of data on them and they are well suited for our use in golf carts. Cost is the reason that cart manufacturers don't offer Lithium batteries yet. The design of a solid system is not that big a deal but most folks won't want to pay a premium for Lithium over FLA batteries. (More than 2X the cost)
I did the conversion for the fun of it and it works well for me. Do I recommend it? Only if you know what you are doing and want to take on the work to do it right.
IMO electric cars are a hobby - not really that practical as an only vehicle. The hardware available is probably not up to the standards required to sell to anyone that isn't experienced in battery technology at least as a hobby.

[Patela2oh]

Originally Posted by PingEye3

Here is a picture of a 7 module 58V pack from HAC in a Yamaha as well. There is an on board charger and DC-DC Converter and still has room for your bar.

That's perfect!!!




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[blekenbleu]

Originally Posted by DaveTM

The other thing that makes me a little nervous about this is some of the connectors they are using. They're not really rated for outdoor use, especially the ones connecting to this battery management system. They look like computer style connectors because they are (im talking about the white connectors,

I am also an electrical engineer. FWIW, similar connectors were used for years on E-Z-GO PDS controllers, which indeed also have a somewhat protective cover.

Originally Posted by DaveTM

I don't know anything about the "Orion Jr BMS"

IMO, Orion documentation is of high quality and seems very credible. Integration of a compatible charger is essential.

[DaveTM]

Originally Posted by DaveTM

... If they had reams of data and certifications from standards bodies, Id be less skeptical, but I'm paid to be skeptical and question stuff like this.

He's looking at the web site with no other knowledge of Lith batteries. So, from what he see's there his questions begin. And frankly, how can you blame him? Look at what he's asking. The site itself states you better know what your doing. So, to those of you who are EE's, well congratulations. You know what your doing. To the rest of us, not so much.

Now, if you would like to have a discussion concerning the recent increase of the Estate Tax exemption, and the joint exemption that has gone to over ten million, and the effect this has had on the Pennsylvania Estate tax, I would be more than happy to have such a discussion. Or perhaps how an LLC can be taxed as a disregard entity or how other types of tax elections of such an entity can make it easy on taxes now, but difficult later on.

You see, it depends upon your area of expertise.

[blekenbleu]

Originally Posted by DaveTM

it depends upon your area of expertise.

In context, doubts were expressed by an engineer.
As an engineer with different experiences, I have fewer concerns.
For folks with various levels of expertise,
HAC offers READY vs DIY ASSEMBLED vs DIY PARTS.

[Volt_Ampere]

HAC does not pretend that these are turnkey systems. They Are not - especially the DIY version. You have to mod the cart wiring - and at least with the Yamaha you need to upgrade the controller. My stock controller lasted a week with the higher voltage supplied by the Lithium pack over the 48V FLA batteries. I opted for offboard charging same as with the stock batteries. I did not want to subject my Chinese charger to the shock and vibration of riding in the cart. I transferred the charger cable / connector from my old Yamaha charger to the new one using the Anderson connectors that came with the charger. Works fine. I have had my installation for almost a year now.