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Old 10-25-2018, 01:12 PM   #51
DaveTM
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
According to the information in the EV battery Center website from their tests:
Max continuous current 240A
Peak current 540A
If You had the newer Alltrax SR You could easily set the max battery amps to 240Amps and still produce over 500 amps on the motor.
I think I can do that now with my existing 4865. In my conversation with Alltrax, my 650amp controller can be reduced to a maximum output by setting the "Maximum Output Current."

Right now the 4865 settings are as follows:

2 minuet rating: 650A
5 minuet rating: 400A
i hour rating: 250A

Remember......speed is NOT the objective of my cart. Just get me there and get me back.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

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My personal opinion is that the leaf cells are over rated at 4C (240 amps) ... a more conservative rating would be 2C (120 amps) or perhaps as high as 3C (180 amp) in order to maximize battery life.
Every lithium chemistry has specific characteristics that can be tailored and according to Battery University the chemistry in the Leaf cells has a High Specific Power characteristic.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...of_lithium_ion
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:48 PM   #53
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
I think I can do that now with my existing 4865. In my conversation with Alltrax, my 650amp controller can be reduced to a maximum output by setting the "Maximum Output Current."

Right now the 4865 settings are as follows:

2 minuet rating: 650A
5 minuet rating: 400A
i hour rating: 250A

Remember......speed is NOT the objective of my cart. Just get me there and get me back.
Unfortunately the old Alltrax controllers only had one setting for power and it appears to be the output one.

The new controllers give you separate settings so that You can allow full power to the motor (under certain throttle conditions) while regulating the maximum amps drawn from the batteries.

Actually if You look at the specs JohnnieB posted in #26, he left off a very important part just 1/2" below that table:
https://alltraxinc.com/wp-content/up...-B_SPEC-SR.pdf
The output torque and speed on the old controller were tied meaning 100% torque happened at the 100% set speed.

You can now set your 30% throttle to deliver 100% torque and 25% speed which would more closely relate to the speed that is likely to need that much torque.
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Old 10-25-2018, 01:57 PM   #54
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post

2. That sounds about right. Whats the max amps your lithium pack can safely provide?
I went back and looked at what the answer to your question should be. I knew I read this at some point, as this is what I recalled.

Keep in mind that I cut off the second part of ag4ever's post because that section was referring to another member's Lith batteries from a different source.

Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by ag4ever View Post
50 amps is not the same as 50 AH.

My leaf pack is rated at 64 AH from Nissan. It can deliver 240 amps sustained, and 540 amps peak. Realistic capacity when new is 60 AH, and I have about 45 AH usable.

Most lithium cells can deliver more than 1C.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:09 AM   #55
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

BTW & FWIW, I sent the following email to Alltrax as I was somewhat perplexed as to why I had to keep power on (peddle depressed) in order for the software to "see" the controller.

Here's the email:

Ron, First of all, thanks for the link. I loaded the software and drivers and can now obtain the information I want\need from my Alltrax 4865 650amp,
However, (there’s always a “but” in there) when I hook up the controller, my laptop (Windows 7) will not “see” or recognize the controller until the controller has power to it. (IE….I step on the throttle.) So, to get my readings I kept the peddle pushed just enough to supply power when I was going down hill. So, is there a reason for this or is this the normal protocol?

BTW, if I take my foot off the pedal completely, the software gives me the message that the controller is not recognized (or some message to that effect) and I lose any ability to collect data unless I hit the refresh button on the software….and only if power is provided to the controller.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:41 AM   #56
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

The AXE controller is only powered up when there is B+ on Pin-1 and Pin-1 only has B+ on it when pedal switch is closed. The pedal switch actually forwards the B+ to one of the small terminals (Coil) on the solenoid and the wire from Pin-1 is attached to the same solenoid small terminal.

A workaround to get the AXE to stay powered up and recording data when you take your foot off the pedal would be to disconnect the red wire from Pin-1 to the solenoid small terminal with two red wires on it and then connect it to the B+ at the battery pack or some convenient spot with B+ 100% of the time, so the controller stayed on 100% of the time. The solenoid would still be operated by the pedal switch, so cart safety wouldn't be compromised much, but I would disconnect the wire on Pin-1 from B+ after the data recording trip.

The latest generation of Alltrax controllers are powered up by the USB connection and stay on as long as the computer is attached, solving that issue.

------------
The attached zipped .csv file separates "Date" "Time" and "Throttle pos" headers and columns and adds Min, Avg and Max functions to each data column.

I sorted by OC and deleted the lines with 0A output (costing with foot on pedal) and the sorted by Date and Time to get back in the original sequence, to get a better picture of min and max OC and BC and battery voltage under load.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Monitor 10-25-JB.zip (31.7 KB, 0 views)
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:55 AM   #57
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
I sorted by OC and deleted the lines with 0A output (costing with foot on pedal) and the sorted by Date and Time to get back in the original sequence, to get a better picture of min and max OC and BC and battery voltage under load.
Thanks for the clean up on column 1. I recall when I was fairly good with excel, it could\would "parse" information in one column if the data was separated by something. Numbers is a free program and won't do that.

BTW, I compared your min\max\avg to mine and they are essentially the same. Maybe not for a statistician, but ok for me.

Thanks!!
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:52 AM   #58
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

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Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
Thanks for the clean up on column 1. I recall when I was fairly good with excel, it could\would "parse" information in one column if the data was separated by something. Numbers is a free program and won't do that.

BTW, I compared your min\max\avg to mine and they are essentially the same. Maybe not for a statistician, but ok for me.

Thanks!!
I didn't post the file after I'd gotten rid of the 0A while coasting entries, but it didn't change anything significant.

I use Quattro Pro these days, but neither it nor Excel will parse information when the delimiter changes between header and body or within the body like they do in the .csv files recorded by the AXE and DCX families of controllers. I use an ASCII text editor to straighten that mess out, then import into a spreadsheet and add the mins.avg and max formulae
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:39 PM   #59
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Default Re: Is our Series Cart a practical application for Lithium Batteries?

I went to my spreadsheet and see that for some reason, when I copied/pasted, your numbers were formatted to 1 decimal place. Mine were 0. Hence the difference was rounding.

Excel use to parse info on a "convert". Maybe they ditched that option......dunno why......but back in the day I used it many times.
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