Introducing CALB cells -and- is the switch to 72v worth it?

[bronsonj]

Glad I could help.

You could use that extra space for a trunk of sorts. I use the extra space for a 12v lithium battery and 12v and 56v chargers and still have space left over.

[Volt_Ampere]

Beer Cooler!

[Nolagt]

You will also increase your range going with a 72v system. I went 72v mainly for range and plan to keep the mph 25-30 depending how she feels. I got the biggest AH I could fit and made the switch to the 6kw AC system so I can get max range. I dont have a ton of storage space now tho lol

[UncleJerm76]

Yeah I’m good on range with 200ah of usable battery (I was good with the previous huge Trojans as well). I’m convinced for the time being that staying at 48v is right for me. If I desire more range in the future I’ll bite the bullet and upgrade to the Navitas AC motor/controller conversion. Then could switch to 72v after that much easier.


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[UncleJerm76]

Accidental post in the wrong thread, will be starting a separate build thread as this doesnt seem like the appropriate place. But Long story-short, bought a precedent and moving all the Lithium plans to it. They fit great in the battery tray too.

[panteramatt]

Any update on the performance of this pack? How the discharge rate? Did you use a bms and what charger do you use?

[Imapled]

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

Haven’t found anyone else using CALB cells on here so I thought I’d give it a go.

CALB CAM72 is what HPEVS uses in their drop-in battery kits. They do 48VDC nominal kits:

https://www.hpevs.com/lithium_batter...LB_CAM_72.html

They use an ORION JR BMS as well. The HPEVS kits are probably the best out there. Premium EV stuff and not some wonky weird fet based BMS that restricts current.

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

They have good 3C discharge rates (600A for for a few seconds and 200A continuous). Best of all even though it’s a brand new large 200ah pack, it was still very affordable @ $1700. They have a tough ribbed durable hard plastic shell and because of this according to the manufacturer they don’t need compression.

Very popular in the EV market. The ribbed casing is so they interlock together so when in high stress traction application the individual cells are somewhat locked together to reduce friction etc... They are specifically made to be used in a traction (moving vehicle) application.

3C discharge is also VERY nice. Some of the drop-in units I have seen appear to be using low C solar wall batteries and some I would even question if they are recycled batteries from Electric Bus units. This has happened to many people in the EV world ordering "cheap" batteries... Recycled bus batteries arrive.

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

I’ll say the one drawback to the CALB is their size. That sturdy hard plastic shell does increase the size quite a bit and I had to modify the battery trays in my DS to fit everything in there—I’m jealous of you guys that have a flat battery compartment!

The size is the size... Most 80AH batteries are about that size. I have 3C LiFePO4 80AH units that are framed differently and not ribbed cased. I can get 40 units into a TXT (with a custom tray) to make a 68VDC @ 160AH all the way up to 144VDC @ 80AH.

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

I’m pleased to find I still have plenty of room to order a few more and step up to 72v ...but I’m on the fence. I know it will be faster more tq but is it worth the extra investment?

Yes. You should bypass 48VDC nominal and go straight to 72VDC nominal if you are installing a Navitas TAC2 traction inverter and AC inductive motor. Motors operate on WATTS which is voltage * current.

You up your voltage game you lower the current needed to produce the same amount of watts or you increase your watts.

Just to give you an example... @ 48VDC nominal I can get a Navitas TAC2 600a and 5kW induction motor on most TXT frames to about 38MPH with a lithium setup.

With a 72VDC nominal I can get that same setup on the same frame going about 48mph+. I have seen units pushed and gotten 51mph but, that is NOT with LiFePO4 and a different battery tech and an unsafe voltage for the TAC2 (80V and NOT supported by Navitas!).

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

Should I just use the extra space as storage for long rides? I would need a new controller & motor as well which is a significant amount more considering I already own a D&D ES-58 and a $1000 FSIP controller.

If the controller can handle higher voltage then take it to the max. That setup is fine. I wouldn't get rid of it personally.

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

Id like to hear from those of you who made the 72v investment and your honest opinions if it was worth it or not.

Its worth it if your traction controller can handle the voltage. For most people who are doing lithium they have Navitas AC (traction inverters) setups... which out of the box supports 48VDC and 72VDC nominal. So, for them to go straight to 72VDC isn't hard.

[UncleJerm76]

Originally Posted by panteramatt

Any update on the performance of this pack? How the discharge rate? Did you use a bms and what charger do you use?

Hi panteramatt, I decided to start a build-thread over at the Lithium Club Car subforum instead of doing it here because the main purpose of this post was only to introduce everyone to the CALB cells and get some opinions on stepping up to 72 volt. If you want to check it out here's a direct link: Project Precedent (https://buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?p=1866922)

[UncleJerm76]

Originally Posted by Imapled

CALB CAM72 is what HPEVS uses in their drop-in battery kits. They do 48VDC nominal kits......

Thank you Imapled for taking the time to answer all my lingering questions and provide more use-case examples for the CALB cells. I'm very happy with them so far and don't think Ill ever reach their 3-sec 600A capability so as long as I don't do something stupid to them — they should last me a long time.

As far as 72 volt, it just wasn't something that made sense for me to do right now, plus I have some future plans that require 48v that I will be talking about at a later date. But to convert to 72V I would need at a minimum a battery tub conversion kit, 8 more lithium cells, a new BMS, new controller, motor, voltage reducer and solenoid. Those added up cost thousands and while the extra efficiency would be very nice, I think I'm somewhat making up for that with these large 200ah capacity cells to get farther range. I'm happy with the 20mph I'm currently getting so increased speed isn't appealing to me at the moment. My Series FSIP controller off the DS will not handle 72v and the D&D motor is Series so those would not swap over without converting my Precedent to a Series cart. Instead, those components will be sold on the DS and I'll keep using the stock components on this Precedent for now.

Not saying I wont ever consider 72 volt in the future - but for now it just makes a lot more sense to stick to 48v.

[Nolagt]

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76

Thanks bronsonj, I needed that - I have zero complaints with my current setup on 48v. Its already too fast for me and I keep the diff in low gear 99% of the time anyway. Really, my only motivation was that I now have plenty of room to do it and if I was going to - now is the time while Ive got it all apart. I'll stick to 48v.

You also get more range with 72v vs 48v on the same AH battery.

Watts to give on a 100ah example. 72v 100ah gives you 7200 watts. 48v 100ah gives you 4800 watts. 72v is also more efficient. Also if you switch to a AC motor setup when switching the stuff out to handle 72v you gain more efficiency.

I went 72v because I knew I would want too anyway and I wanted to setup for max range OR fun. Put a 72v 150ah and the navitas AC kit in my onward.