Best lithium setup for Navitas 600/5kw?

[Nutshell]

Originally Posted by Lightning8U

Thanks to everyone for all of the information. Very informative. With regards to the RoyPow line of products, IF a customer is going from an S51105 (51V and 105AH) to an S51105P (51V 105AH with 'Performance'BMS), will they see improvements in power, torque, or speed? This question is specific to customers running the 5kW 600amp Navitas setup only...

The primary difference between the P and non-P is that for 30 seconds the P has a discharge rate of 315 amps for 30 seconds vs the normal non-P battery having a 10-second discharge rate of 200 amps. After 30 seconds, the sustained discharge rates are 105 amps and 100 amps respectively. What are the collective thoughts or does anyone have direct experience with this? Thank you.

Sent you a PM

[Lightning8U]

Originally Posted by Nutshell

Sent you a PM

Just replied Thank you!

[fstop]

Originally Posted by Lightning8U

Thanks to everyone for all of the information. Very informative. With regards to the RoyPow line of products, IF a customer is going from an S51105 (51V and 105AH) to an S51105P (51V 105AH with 'Performance'BMS), will they see improvements in power, torque, or speed? This question is specific to customers running the 5kW 600amp Navitas setup only...

The primary difference between the P and non-P is that for 30 seconds the P has a discharge rate of 315 amps for 30 seconds vs the normal non-P battery having a 10-second discharge rate of 200 amps. After 30 seconds, the sustained discharge rates are 105 amps and 100 amps respectively. What are the collective thoughts or does anyone have direct experience with this? Thank you.

If he has large tires (>22 or 23), has a limo cart, has max occupants in 4p cart, drives in hilly or muddy terrain (or combinations) then the "P" might help.

I don't know what else they changed in the "P", but I think it is just a more robust BMS and in that case the "performance" (speed / acceleration) between the P and normal should be the same, but the P should allow continued use even after a point that may trigger a BMS protection event on the regular. So if a user is hitting BMS shutdowns due to current draw then the P may solve the issue (but may still shut down, but maybe it would take longer to do so, depending on the severity of the current draw).

I don't have the P, but used the non-P 105ah for about a year, and never had a single BMS shutdown for any reason, and I have 23" tires + the Navitas system.

I don't have hills though (or a limo cart, or generally go off paved surfaces etc...), and having them would likely cause some issues if you also want to accelerate when climbing them, or even just climbing them normally if you have max occupants in the cart.

My expectation would be that if I swapped my non-P for a P in my cart, nothing would change under my use conditions.

Good luck with it.

[Lightning8U]

Originally Posted by dougrobling

Even the higher version will somewhat limit the performance of the Navitas.
If you live in a flat area, you should be OK. But if you are in a hilly area and want to maintain higher speeds uphill you may have an issue. I routinely pull 200A (at 72V which would equate to roughly 300A at 48V) when ascending hills. That can take longer than 10 seconds, and is cumulative so if there are multiple hills (or accelerations) on your route you could have an issue. The Navitas will allow you to limit the current draw, but that also limits the power available......

Thanks for the response. In regards to level, flat areas, what amp draw are you seeing cruising at higher speeds (i.e. 30 or 35mph)? If staying with 48/51v, perhaps the best option is to go straight to the S51160P which has a 30 second draw of 315a and a sustained rate of 160a. Obviously, it will not be as strong as the 72v systems, but it should be a significant improvement over the regular 105ah batter with a qo second draw of 200a and a sustained rate of 100a, no? Thanks, again!

[Lightning8U]

Originally Posted by fstop

If he has large tires (>22 or 23), has a limo cart, has max occupants in 4p cart, drives in hilly or muddy terrain (or combinations) then the "P" might help.

I don't know what else they changed in the "P", but I think it is just a more robust BMS and in that case the "performance" (speed / acceleration) between the P and normal should be the same, but the P should allow continued use even after a point that may trigger a BMS protection event on the regular. So if a user is hitting BMS shutdowns due to current draw then the P may solve the issue (but may still shut down, but maybe it would take longer to do so, depending on the severity of the current draw).

I don't have the P, but used the non-P 105ah for about a year, and never had a single BMS shutdown for any reason, and I have 23" tires + the Navitas system.

I don't have hills though (or a limo cart, or generally go off paved surfaces etc...), and having them would likely cause some issues if you also want to accelerate when climbing them, or even just climbing them normally if you have max occupants in the cart.

My expectation would be that if I swapped my non-P for a P in my cart, nothing would change under my use conditions.

Good luck with it.

Fstop, thanks for the response and thoughts. What type of cart are (were) you running with the 105 and Navitas 5kw? Also, what was your top speed with this combo. The customer was expecting 35+ mph from this same setup and is only seeing 32mph with 22" tires. I am not sure what to say or how to get him to 35 mph without converting to 72v. I know its a minimal difference, but he paid a good bit to swap out his FLAs and a PQ Executioner for the exact same speed albeit more range!

[ecpchris]

My speeds with 110ah LifePo battery and Navitas 5kw are 36-38 depending on the road

2020 Club Car Onward

[fstop]

Originally Posted by Lightning8U

Fstop, thanks for the response and thoughts. What type of cart are (were) you running with the 105 and Navitas 5kw? Also, what was your top speed with this combo. The customer was expecting 35+ mph from this same setup and is only seeing 32mph with 22" tires. I am not sure what to say or how to get him to 35 mph without converting to 72v. I know its a minimal difference, but he paid a good bit to swap out his FLAs and a PQ Executioner for the exact same speed albeit more range!

I have a 4P Onward with factory lift.

Before I switched out to the 72v, top speed with the 51v 105ah RoyPow was 36.5 +/- 1.5 on flat ground, optimal conditions, one person in the cart w/ windshield down.

Not a "blip" speed, but repeatable GPS speeds that are not peak speeds but steady state speeds. By optimum conditions I mean not on a cold day, minimal or no head-wind, 85% + SOC, no uphill grade in the road surface etc...
Edit: I'll add that there isn't much acceleration left once it hits about 30-31. You need a little road to get north of 36. It'll get there, but you need maybe another 25-30 seconds once you hit low 30s to top it out.

I usually run fairly low PSI (11.5) in my tires for ride quality, but in my case I never really noticed any increase in speeds with higher pressure, for whatever that's worth.

My tires (Street Fox radials) say "23" on the side, but I measure 22.5.

[oldbeefcake]

is your 72V has the same output spec as your 52V ROYPOW?

[HeatWave]

Originally Posted by fstop

I have a 4P Onward with factory lift.

Before I switched out to the 72v, top speed with the 51v 105ah RoyPow was 36.5 +/- 1.5 on flat ground, optimal conditions, one person in the cart w/ windshield down.

Not a "blip" speed, but repeatable GPS speeds that are not peak speeds but steady state speeds. By optimum conditions I mean not on a cold day, minimal or no head-wind, 85% + SOC, no uphill grade in the road surface etc...
Edit: I'll add that there isn't much acceleration left once it hits about 30-31. You need a little road to get north of 36. It'll get there, but you need maybe another 25-30 seconds once you hit low 30s to top it out.

I usually run fairly low PSI (11.5) in my tires for ride quality, but in my case I never really noticed any increase in speeds with higher pressure, for whatever that's worth.

My tires (Street Fox radials) say "23" on the side, but I measure 22.5.

Have you ever noticed if / how much, tire pressure affects range??

[fstop]

Originally Posted by HeatWave

Have you ever noticed if / how much, tire pressure affects range??

My opinion is that efficiency can be measured a few different ways - speed with a given energy input, or range with a given amount of energy.

So generally speaking I think if you can increase speed with a given amount of energy, you will also increase potential range.

That said, no, I didn't observe an increase in range but I also didn't specifically test it either. I think if there was less rolling resistance by increasing tire pressure, I'd see it both in higher attainable speeds as well as in range at a given speed.

The cart probably does actually go faster with higher pressure, it is just (in my case anyway) very, very slight - less than 1mph from my recollection, and not enough to make any difference for me, but I can tell the difference over bumps, and that does make a difference for me.

I've mentioned this before I think, but my tires are radials and have a very large / wide, flat contact area with the road. And they are stiff as far as the sidewall goes. They basically look the same if you have 3psi in them or 20psi. They don't have a crown like a lot of golf cart tires, where when you put lots of pressure in them only the center part touches the road while the farther from the centerline you go, there is much less tire to road contact. I think these are the kinds of tires where you can reduce rolling resistance significantly by increasing pressure.

I chose this type of tire though because it has excellent grip for handling and braking, and the particular tread pattern and type is super quiet at faster cruising speeds. Not the cushiest tire out there though, and likely not the fastest / most efficient either, so you win some, you lose some...