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Old 10-20-2013, 10:17 PM   #1
cbryan88
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Default rewire help 2004 PDS

Help...

Just did complete rewire of my PDS cart and now have weird issues...

Previous owner had done some less than stellar add-ons, so I decided to replace all cables with 2awg, add a 12V 25 amp converter for lights and stereo and upgrade controller to Alltrax DCX in anticipation of future mods. Also got 400A solenoid w diode.

Problem: Cart has REV alarm on all the time in FWD or REV, and will operate but only goes reverse regardless of switch position. Alltrax light flashes four green (PDS) then six red (low voltage) at startup.

Started by replacing all batt-controller-motor cables, also removed previous 12V accessory items...I am pretty anal, so all cables marked and swapped one at a time...triple checked and all is correct and tight. Chinese solenoid did not come w/ wiring diagram, so I referred to PDS schematic in Sticky and Alltrax schematic when wiring. Did not touch on-off switch, FWD/REV...or any of factory harness other than to plug into Alltrax harness.

Was super careful to double check all routing and connections before testing...

Given that cart was working fine prior to swaps, I am baffled...

oh, voltage reads 38.7-38.8 at Batt Terminals, but only 35.2 at controller...

The voltage sounds like solenoid, but wtf on the REV only???

Have searched here and Google, but yet to find a solution or definitive troubleshoot approach...
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:08 AM   #2
JohnnieB
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Sounds like you have two problems, not counting any 12V accessory issues.

Cart in Reverse all the time. Could be F/R switch, or Controller, or PDS to DCX adapter, or stock control wiring.

Check the voltage at Pin-4 of the DCX controller. It should be B+ (Pack voltage) when F/R is in R and Zero when F/R is in N or F.
If the voltage on Pin-4 drops to zero when F/R is not in R and the reverse beeper is sounding, the controller is bad or something is miss-wired

If there is B+ on Pin-4 when F/R is in F, check the voltage on J1 Pins 2 & 3 of the stock PDS wiring harness.
You should have B+ on Pin-3 when F/R is in F, on Pin-2 when F/R is in R and both should be Zero when F/R is in N.

If the voltage going into the adapter is correct and the voltage going to the controller isn't, the adapter is bad.

----------
Under volts error.

Check the voltage on the solenoid's large terminal that is connected directly to the battery pack's main positive terminal and then chack the voltage at the other large terminal.

It should be about 3-5 volts lower before the solenoid clicks and the same as the battery side terminal after the solenoid clicks.

If not the solenoid contacts are not closing.

--
Also, what is the under volt slider set for?
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Thanks Johnnie... I am going to run through it again today after work and will bring my laptop to check settings and diagnostics in controller too.

What is proper value for under voltage slider? I do have about 3V drop across open solenoid...I will verify after it closes that I get 38+

I am thinking the Alltrax harness and/ or adapter may be mis-wired? it's all plug n play...but?

The lug connections on controller are simple and all correct...is there a programming toggle in software that could be causing Reverse issue? I left factory PDS paramaters to start with, but maybe something is set wrong in Controller. Controller does go to solid green after startup, and thankfully nothing hot and no smoke leaking out...

I used to install high end car audio in the 90's and have re-wired many of my racecars top to bottom, and this looked too easy for me, yet here I am...Lol
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:13 AM   #4
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Slider should be set to about 1.5VPC (Volts per Cell)
That would be 27V for a 36V pack, 31.5V for a 42V pack and 36V for a 48V pack.

The PDS to DCX adapter is a plumber's nightmare.
I suspect it is the source of the always in reverse problem, but there are other possibilities.

The Alltrax schematic for a DCX in a PDS is electrically correct, but it sure is hard to trace the various circuits through it.
I get cross-eyed everytime I try.

There is a toggle for 1/2 speed reverse in the program, but that wouldn't cause it to stay in reverse.

I'm very good at reading schematics and wiring diagrams, and I double check and triple check, but still manage to screw up every now and then.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Thanks again...going to go at it again, and will report back after full laptop diagnostic on Alltrax...
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Also, Johnnie I notice your setup is really close to mine, curious about going to 42V, which I am considering once we get her sorted...did you add the D&D before or after the 42V upgrade? I am also running 18.25 (205/50-10) tires and hoping to ultimately achieve high 20's with good driveability and batt life. Interested to hear your story...
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

My goal was range rather than Speed or Torque, but ended up with all three.

I started with a DCX400 feeding a stock PDS motor from a 36V battery pack and got 24 MPH on 18.3" tires. (Range about 30 miles)

Replaced the 36V-225AH (6x6V) pack with a 42V-245AH pack (7X6V) and the speed went up to 28 MPH. (Range about 36 Miles)

I made the mistake of going downhill with my foot on the floor and as I was accelerating through 33 MPH, I lifted my foot and the motor seized.
(Armature exploded, but stayed inside the motor case)

After the cart slid to a stop, I heard some arcing sounds under the seat and saw sparks and smoke coming out of controller's serial port opening when I lifted seat. Putting Run/Tow switch into Tow stopped the sparking.

Some people have revved a stock PDS motor over 7,600 RPM (33.4 MPH on 18.3" tires) and a few have revved them much higher than that, but for whatever reason, mine couldn't take the stress and it took out the controller when it failed. Ironically, the 250 Amp fuse I had in the B- cable didn't blow.

I don't have the specs for the D&D motor running at 42V, but generates about 11.8 Hp on 48V, so I should be getting about 10.3 or so.

The torque with the D&D motor and DCX500 is amazing. I had to back off on the Throttle UP ramp so I could take off without spinning the tires on grass.

Top sustainable speed on level pavement is still about 28 MPH, but it gets there a bit quicker. The increase in torque did cost me some range, but only about 2 miles, so it is still up where I want it to be.

----------
With 48V, you might be able to get close to 32 MPH on 18.25" tires, but that means spinning the motor at about 7,300 RPM and that might be pushing it a bit.

I'm keeping my motor under 6,500 RPM (28.5 MPH on 18.3" tires) and the motor case temperature under 115°C (239°F)
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Some people have revved a stock PDS motor over 7,600 RPM (33.4 MPH on 18.3" tires) and a few have revved them much higher than that, but for whatever reason, mine couldn't take the stress and it took out the controller when it failed. Ironically, the 250 Amp fuse I had in the B- cable didn't blow.
My series motor goes pretty high. I suspect regen had a part in the merger of your rotor and stator.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by yurtle View Post
........... I suspect regen had a part in the merger of your rotor and stator.
Without a doubt, regen was a major contributing factor.

I don't know the tensile strength rating of whatever is used to hold the armature coils in place, but Centrifugal forces were pushing the weight of armature windings outward and Magnetic forces were pulling them toward the stator windings, so it was the combination of those forces that exceeded the tensile strength of the bonding material holding them together. All it took was a hairline crack or other slight weakness that allowed one of the armature coils to start moving outward and it snowballed from there.

It is entirely possible that the armature in my stock PDS motor had flaws in it that others don't have, or it may be possible that other stock PDS motors will fail in a similar fashion if subjected to the same combination of forces.

Without regen, I believe the limiting factors for RPM is more bearings and balance issues rather than centrifugal force.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: rewire help 2004 PDS

THe plot thickens...so far have checked solenoid...voltage drop is fine, but now it no longer clicks and closes...the tests Johnnie recommended were zero voltage at all pins...still get 38+ at Batt and on lugs of solenoid and controller either 38 or 35...have now undone checked and reconnected all cables, while checking wiring diagrams again. Now thinking it must be a problem in factory harness, even though I did not touch it other than to plug in DCX adapter harness...

WTF!!! anybody want a deal on a freshly restored but not running POS TXT PDS!!! I am about to do a jackass stunt with it into the ocean...oh yeah, cept it dont run...will have to push it!!!

Guess now I need input on troubleshooting key switch and FWD-REV...

8hrs into a 2 hour job...q
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