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Old 03-15-2021, 04:05 PM   #31
ATrain
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
7000 RPM caused the cart to suddenly shut down after an extended outing. Worked fine after a brief cooldown.
I'd like to know more about this...can you explain in more detail the circumstances?

I have an i60L and i40L both at 7500 RPMs for months and literally a couple thousand miles with this never happening in SoCal.

Are you located in FL and was it very hot outside? Were you driving long distances? Stop & go driving or cruising on major stretches?

Are the RPM's the only thing you've modified?

I've mentioned a few times in various posts about the temperature sensor and how it may or may not be properly installed on the motor. It is a safety feature to do exactly what you said when things get too hot and to prevent damage...but I was told it was just bundled up in the umbilical and not actually on the motor. They may have since changed that or yours might have been touching something extra hot?
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Old 03-15-2021, 05:44 PM   #32
Rasputin
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Only mods to the default settings were RPM of 7000 (6000 from factory) and FWD Drive Power of 18 (15 from factory). Lithium pack, 4 passengers. Temp was 75 or so.

Took a 3 mile drive at about 85% of the trip at full throttle to destination. Failure occurred during return trip after 30 minute stop at destination. Failure was while climbing a grade at full throttle. Cart suddenly stopped without warning with complete power failure. Took about 20 minutes before I could turn the battery back on and then everything functioned fine.

It may have been the battery given the complete power loss. I wasn't running the monitors but nothing felt particularly outside of normal temps when I was initially diagnosing it FWIW. When the cart booted back up, the controller was about 35C and motor was at 70C.

As a bonus, I now know to keep a T25 key with me to disengage the automatic parking brake these carts have in a complete power-out scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATrain View Post
I'd like to know more about this...can you explain in more detail the circumstances?
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Old 03-16-2021, 12:46 PM   #33
ATrain
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin View Post
Only mods to the default settings were RPM of 7000 (6000 from factory) and FWD Drive Power of 18 (15 from factory). Lithium pack, 4 passengers. Temp was 75 or so.

Took a 3 mile drive at about 85% of the trip at full throttle to destination. Failure occurred during return trip after 30 minute stop at destination. Failure was while climbing a grade at full throttle. Cart suddenly stopped without warning with complete power failure. Took about 20 minutes before I could turn the battery back on and then everything functioned fine.

It may have been the battery given the complete power loss. I wasn't running the monitors but nothing felt particularly outside of normal temps when I was initially diagnosing it FWIW. When the cart booted back up, the controller was about 35C and motor was at 70C.

As a bonus, I now know to keep a T25 key with me to disengage the automatic parking brake these carts have in a complete power-out scenario.
I'm curious if it was the lithium pack...those things are brand new and not hugely tested. The issue is there are so many LI packs made by random people.
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Old 03-16-2021, 08:27 PM   #34
Stano7
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

ATrain, I have parts on the way to create programming cable and have downloaded the software. My question is, once you edit the xml file do you have to upload the edits? Or is simply editing it enough? Also, can the edits be made in Notepad or similar or do you use a specific program?
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Old 03-16-2021, 08:49 PM   #35
TropicFury
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stano7 View Post
ATrain, I have parts on the way to create programming cable and have downloaded the software. My question is, once you edit the xml file do you have to upload the edits? Or is simply editing it enough? Also, can the edits be made in Notepad or similar or do you use a specific program?
I basically edited the XML file to increase the FWD MAX Drive value per ATrain's picture he posted and then I saved the file.

From my memory - Turn the Icon "on", plug into the controller port, open the NEOS program, click "tuning". It will then read and pull in all of your settings. Find the setting you want to change, enter in the new value in the "new" field, then click "write device" at the very top. It's pretty intuitive on that. Now what all the settings actually do - that's what we're all trying to find out.

For example, I set my rpm to 6000 and I get a speed increase from 25mph to 30mph. If I increase rpm's any higher, even to 7000rpm, I see no added speed increase. It's like my motor has a hard set limit at 6000rpm or perhaps there is another setting somewhere I need to change. And my speedometer 30mph is actually 28mph according to the Waze app on my phone.
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Old 03-16-2021, 09:05 PM   #36
Stano7
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Awesome, thanks TropicFury. So basically open the file, edit, save - and NEOS picks it up from there? No need to “write” or upload the file after it has been saved? What program did you use to edit the file? Do you just double click and it opens? My goal is to raise the FWD MAX as well. I haven’t been in there yet but am betting on my setting being at 6000. I’d like to toy with it at 8000. Will certainly report back, just want to make sure I correctly make the edit to the xml file.
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Old 03-16-2021, 09:08 PM   #37
Stano7
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

TropicFury, I’m wondering if your changes aren’t saving. Is your 7000 rpm edit showing up in the GUI after you made the change?
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Old 03-16-2021, 09:13 PM   #38
TropicFury
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stano7 View Post
Awesome, thanks TropicFury. So basically open the file, edit, save - and NEOS picks it up from there? No need to “write” or upload the file after it has been saved? What program did you use to edit the file? Do you just double click and it opens? My goal is to raise the FWD MAX as well. I haven’t been in there yet but am betting on my setting being at 6000. I’d like to toy with it at 8000. Will certainly report back, just want to make sure I correctly make the edit to the xml file.
On my windows 10 laptop, I right clicked the XML file and then clicked "edit". Can't remember what program it opened in. Maybe notepad, maybe notepad++. Not sure. If you just open it, XML files usually open in a web browser which won't allow you to save anything. Make sure you right click and "edit" to avoid any read only issues.

I searched for the setting, changed the value, then saved the XML file. Now when you open NEOS it will read the XML and allow the new "max" value.

I have a 40L and my default rpm value was 5000, which is 25mph.
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Old 03-16-2021, 09:24 PM   #39
Stano7
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Ten four. I have an I40L also. I may come up against the same speed limit issue you’re having. Please let me know if you find out what the problem is with that.
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Old 03-16-2021, 10:19 PM   #40
ATrain
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Default Re: Icon programming/speed limit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stano7 View Post
ATrain, I have parts on the way to create programming cable and have downloaded the software. My question is, once you edit the xml file do you have to upload the edits? Or is simply editing it enough? Also, can the edits be made in Notepad or similar or do you use a specific program?
The NEOS software reads/writes values directly to the controller's memory. It will write anything you tell it to.

When you open the software, the developers wrote an "init" piece that will look in the software's local directory for the XML file (parameters) to tell it what to do. To tell it what's too much, too little, etc. The NEOS software could program non-golf cart controllers, such as fork-lifts. It needs the parameters to know what it's designed to do.

Those parameters prevent it from programming insane things (for this device). Those parameters are an extra-safe number range. As long as you stay out of the XML, it should be very difficult for you to screw up the cart because the limits are extra-cautious. You don't need to upload/download the XML to the cart at all. It only provides basic instructions to the software on how it should interact with your cart.

I spoke with the main ICON software developer, and he just sort of picked values, that he knew, from his extensive personal experience, wouldn't destroy your cart. So imagine you're a dude that works at ICON and you're like "ok I pushed it to 10k RPM's and things started to get dicey...let's set their max to 6k RPMs, that should be good". The guy is not an EE or a scientist, but he's experienced with the product, which goes far.

Individually, very few of us know more than he does, but as a collective, we surpass easily. ICON, as a company, needs to prevent dealers from accidentally destroying golf carts as they need to warranty them, so those values are always going to err on the side of being idiot-proof.

All of that said, if you actually understand the basic physics and things that go into these carts, you'll be far more comfortable with tweaking settings. Knowing your battery wire gauge, and knowing how many amps/volts it can safely take, knowing your voltage/capacity of your battery pack, etc.

The primary things to be concerned with are temperature of the motor (too hot burns it up) and amps (current [I]). If you tweak settings and the motor gets too hot, you can ruin your cart. The carts should have high/low temperature sensors that are connected to the motor and monitored by the controller, but as I've posted in another thread, I'm not convinced they're installed properly...they may not be installed properly because ICON dev's decided they put enough safety checks in the XML file...not realizing people like us may push the limits. That temperature sensor alone (if installed correctly) could prevent you from doing any damage at all no matter what you do...but we need to figure out if it's installed correctly.

So if you want to push the limits, you just need to monitor the feedback from the cart. There'll always be sacrifices for performance...i.e. if you want to drive up a 45 degree incline quickly, your cart will use more battery than if you do it slowly. The goal is for the ICON cart owners' community to collective figure this crap out.
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