Ooooohhhhhh Sooooolenoid!

[Pipsta]

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71

I'm assuming you're talking about the Large white wire opposite the large red wire, and yes... when the solenoid clicks you should have 12V+ at this wire... and you do, if the starter turns over. No need to check for voltage if the starter is turning over... You've still got to figure out why the solenoid won't click on it's own without you using jumper wires... Have you installed the proper voltage regulator yet?

An incorrect one hasn't ever been installed. Wrong one bought...but never installed. Yes, I know I need to figure out why it won't click on it's own....In fact....it's all I think about for two days.

[TahoeDawgZ71]

Originally Posted by Pipsta

An incorrect one hasn't ever been installed. Wrong one bought...but never installed. Yes, I know I need to figure out why it won't click on it's own....In fact....it's all I think about for two days.

OK then let's start over....

Step one... perform test I told you about earlier by unhooking both small wires and jumping the solenoid with jumper wires to make sure it will click. If it clicks and the starter begins to turn, proceed to step 2...

Step two...
You should have disconnected three wires from one of these small posts.... two blue wires and an orange wire.... Locate the blue wire that does NOT go to the voltage regulator. You're looking for the blue wire that runs to the keyswitch. Put your multimeter on DC Voltage and put the positive lead on the end of this wire and the negative lead on the frame. You should pick up 12 volts with the key ON. Not start, but ON.

Step three...
If you have confirmed voltage at this point, you are obviously lacking negative voltage from the other small post, which goes back to what I had originally mentioned.. The grounding of the solenoid is done through the voltage regulator and you're probably gonna have to install another one to get the car to work.

[Pipsta]

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71

OK then let's start over....

Step one... perform test I told you about earlier by unhooking both small wires and jumping the solenoid with jumper wires to make sure it will click. If it clicks and the starter begins to turn, proceed to step 2...

Step two...
You should have disconnected three wires from one of these small posts.... two blue wires and an orange wire.... Locate the blue wire that does NOT go to the voltage regulator. You're looking for the blue wire that runs to the keyswitch. Put your multimeter on DC Voltage and put the positive lead on the end of this wire and the negative lead on the frame. You should pick up 12 volts with the key ON. Not start, but ON.

Step three...
If you have confirmed voltage at this point, you are obviously lacking negative voltage from the other small post, which goes back to what I had originally mentioned.. The grounding of the solenoid is done through the voltage regulator and you're probably gonna have to install another one to get the car to work.

Step one...check, as I posted earlier that one was accomplished and the engine turned.

I wish you would have included the second and third steps in your previous post it would have expedited my work time line.

Would step two be in the instance of only after turning the key to 'start' from off and then letting it return to 'on'? This wire gets hot only after I turn the key to 'start' and then continues hot while the key is at 'on'. It does not get hot if I turn the key from 'off' to 'on' only. I have to take it to 'start' for it to get powered. I will check it tomorrow about the voltage it's actually getting. I do remember it being a blue wire though and not the blue wire coming from the volt reg.

Unfortunately for the second day in a row this info you've posted got to me after I left the cart and I am 25miles away so I can't go outside and immediately work on it. I will leave at first light to get to the cart to begin work. Half my workweek has passed and I'm losing money that is needed for my upcoming bills, let alone repairs. So I'm eager to get this done so I can work Saturday night which is typically my best night.

I did discover that my start/gen was bad and scored a very good used one for relatively cheap and now am pushing 15 volts regulated, where before I was getting 12, when I tested the volt reg yellow wire grounded like in the test method you mentioned in an earlier post.

So does this mean the volt reg is completely good or can it still function to regulate the voltage off the start/gen but not ground the second smaller post on solenoid simultaneously? All wires appear to be intact and connections good.

One other thing. Coming off the volt reg is a black wire that is split three ways. One is grounded on the bolt that the volt reg is mounted on and the two others go what appears to be a 5 terminal relay that sits above the accel pedal microswitch.

I'm really not sure if this is stock or some altering of the wiring has taken place. Someone mentioned to me there should be two microswitches stacked on each other in that spot but they are only familiar with the club cars having the common volt reg not the carryalls that have the different voltage regulator with the extra wires. All the connectors and crimps appear to be factory done.

In the morning I will take pictures of it and post here hoping someone will recognize it. I have searched around online and it appears it's some sort of '12 volt automotive relay' and this one has the word 'coil' printed on it reflecting the schematic of two of the terminals. The two terminals with the black wires on it coming from the volt reg are labeled 'common'. With the ignition in the 'on' position only one of the wires is hot and something tells me more than one should be.

Does this sound like it's been messed with and/or do the wires at least seem familiar with destinations commonplace? I think I might be able to find one that will fit at an auto part store or elsewhere if it is bad. When the ignition is in the 'on' position it gets kind of hot in the body of it. Which gives me the impression that something is amiss about it.

This is what it resembles in general look and number of terminals but not necessarily is exactly the arrangement of terminals nor schematics of the relay. This is where I found this item as well.

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/p3982.html

[TahoeDawgZ71]

ok... keyswitch to solenoid voltage is confirmed with voltage to the blue wire... Solenoid is not grounding. Replace voltage regulator. It grounds through the white wire, that circuit is blown. And yes, the relay you are speaking of is factory equipment. It's designed to hold the solenoid engaged while the car is running. Let me know when you install the new regulator and we'll work on any problems you may have after that. Don't ground the regulator to the bolt that holds it. Ground it to the frame next to the battery.

[Pipsta]

When I was pulling the volt reg the first time and I noticed that the new one was different. I accidentally snapped the bolt holding it, it was brass, I poked it through the bottom of the black box to replace and thought, 'how the hell is anything being grounded through this bolt it's not touching any frame'. I asked a friend about it and he said if it's been that way and the cart was working then it works so don't change it.

I figured that the ground was being passed through the body of the volt reg back out to that funky relay through the three way split black wire that two of the wires goes to the relay and one grounds back to that bolt holding the volt reg. I still felt that was not good but if it was working all along then who am I to change it. There is an additional uncovered braided wire also attached to that bolt that I couldn't see where it came from.

So you are confirming that the volt reg can successfully regulate voltage of the start/gen and still be faulty of grounding the solenoid at the same time? Not that it is in this case specifically but that it can do this in general. Can I take a jumper from that post that is supposed to be grounding and ground it somewhere with everything hooked up the way it's supposed to and have the solenoid work properly engaged by the key? Or does it need to be grounded this way through the regulator to work without being grounded out before?

Is there a way to test that ground circuit before I go spend $46 on the part that I might not need.....again. I guess if that relay is bad it's something that only the dealer would carry and likely have to be ordered. What would I ask for? I don't remember seeing a part# on it. I looked.

Also if that relay is supposed to keep current to the solenoid how do I test it to find out if it's the problem?

[TahoeDawgZ71]

Originally Posted by Pipsta

When I was pulling the volt reg the first time and I noticed that the new one was different. I accidentally snapped the bolt holding it, it was brass, I poked it through the bottom of the black box to replace and thought, 'how the hell is anything being grounded through this bolt it's not touching any frame'. I asked a friend about it and he said if it's been that way and the cart was working then it works so don't change it.

I figured that the ground was being passed through the body of the volt reg back out to that funky relay through the three way split black wire that two of the wires goes to the relay and one grounds back to that bolt holding the volt reg. I still felt that was not good but if it was working all along then who am I to change it. There is an additional uncovered braided wire also attached to that bolt that I couldn't see where it came from.

So you are confirming that the volt reg can successfully regulate voltage of the start/gen and still be faulty of grounding the solenoid at the same time? Not that it is in this case specifically but that it can do this in general. Can I take a jumper from that post that is supposed to be grounding and ground it somewhere with everything hooked up the way it's supposed to and have the solenoid work properly engaged by the key? Or does it need to be grounded this way through the regulator to work without being grounded out before?

Is there a way to test that ground circuit before I go spend $46 on the part that I might not need.....again. I guess if that relay is bad it's something that only the dealer would carry and likely have to be ordered. What would I ask for? I don't remember seeing a part# on it. I looked.

Also if that relay is supposed to keep current to the solenoid how do I test it to find out if it's the problem?

Yes, it's possible for the regulator to regulate voltage but not provide a ground to the solenoid.... and Yes, you can ground it separately with a jumper but the solenoid won't work properly with your keyswitch on/off/start positions.. Depending on which keystart system you have, it may react differently. You say that you've got 12V positive on the other side when the keyswitch is in the on position after you've turned it to start, but if the regulator isn't hooked up as the ground, the kill circuit won't function properly when you turn the key to off, and your engine wont stop running until you choke it out of air or pull the plug wire. If you're paying $46.00 for a voltage regulator, you're paying way too much. That's about all I can say without having a problem with site sponsors jumping on my case. Look elsewhere. The part number is 102803401. I'll say it again, last time... change the regulator.

[Pipsta]

So all the time I take to make sure that it's the volt reg that's messed up so I don't spend money on parts I don't need doesn't help the fact that the right volt reg is pretty much nowhere to be found. The dealer didn't have the right one either. It was going to take a week to get it from just about everyone I had talked to. So all my effort to get it figured out sooner than later was gonna go for naught. So even if I had figured it out the first day it would be a weekend missed of work.

I type the part number in google and I'm use to getting 6,430,845,192,339 hits in .00000000000000021 seconds but what do I get? 4...... that's right 4 hits. Two of them are the part. I learn it's called a 'key start voltage regulator' as opposed to the pedal start one that is the common one. The cheapest I found it for online is $39.99 plus like $11 to ship and still would take 3-4 days to get to me.

Then Saturday eve I get a lead on a place that sells club car parts out of a warehouse that the main biz is the motors on refrigerated trailers. I call, they are closed until Monday. So that's when I call five minutes after they open and they got the part. Just one! It's $37, not too bad. When I'm there I ask about the relay. They got it, too! For $32..... Funny thing, too, they can get parts the next day. They must have an even bigger warehouse somewhere...lol.

So it's put in and I'm good to go. I just wish I had found this source for parts before the weekend. Instead of all the places with the wrong part and a week wait for parts on order.

Thanks for your help T-Dawg...you must really know your chit.

[crash12888]

Glad to hear you got it striaght Pipsta, I haven't been exposed to any key start carts but we all continue to learn from each other here.
Great job Tahoedawg, Now get out there and recoupe some income!!!

[Pipsta]

I guess most of the key start carts are the multi-passenger 'transporter' types. From what I understand the smaller 2/4 passengers, anything with just the one bench where the engine is right under the driver's butt, is pedal start. For whatever reason those longer limo style carts got a key start and the shorter carts got a pedal start. Wonder why they went the two different ways and how they decided which gets which.

The biggest pain about my cart I learned from this past issue is there are a number of harder to find parts. Not every parts source is going to carry them. Even that relay didn't show up in parts catalogs with some sources. So I'm going to plan ahead and keep an extra part as a back up of those hard to find ones. Don't want to lose another weekend of work waiting for a part order in case one goes bad.

[TahoeDawgZ71]

Thanks everyone... Glad I could help. Let me know if you need anything else.