91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video)

treeguy27 · 03-12-2016, 03:35 PM

Thanks again for the help. After some struggling I got the case separated today. Didn't find a bushing on the flywheel side, still haven't got the bearings off of the clutch side. There is a very small groove on the crank on the clutch side, a little bit of a rough spot as well. The seals didn't appear to be so bad that there was any metal to metal contact. I don't know if any of this will cause trouble allowing the new seals to seal properly. I could run a little scotchbrite pad on there and probably clean most of it up. Not sure if that would help or hurt?

You can see it in the video, as well as the play in the rod bearing. Any advice on whether that is normal or excessive play? It spins smooth as butter, and doesn't appear to have any up and down play. I can kind of tilt it a tiny bit, but that may just be the lateral play? I'd really like to reuse the crank if possible, but don't want to waste my time if it is definitely not going to last.

If I was smart enough I would embed the video, a link will have to work...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njs1ZU_XBTw

ski-doo583 · 03-12-2016, 08:10 PM

You might also notice it starting harder after the engine is good and warm. That's because the cylinder is getting worn out and when it warms up the cylinder expands and your compression drops Evan more.
Motor Needs to be rebuilt.
Put new crank bearings and seals in.
Buy a new top end kit where you get a brand new jug, piston and rings plus all the gaskets for the top side come in the kit and don't forget to buy a new wrist pin bearing also.
You've already replaced the carb so it should run like new.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

racin161 · 03-13-2016, 09:58 AM

Your not looking for a bushing but a thin washer behind the bearing when removing the bearings. Clean up the crank with scotch bright and it will be good.

LOU

treeguy27 · 03-13-2016, 03:17 PM

Thanks again for the help, I'll order parts. Do all of the on-line parts warehouses sell the same top end kit? After a quick search they all appear the same. Didn't know if some were better quality than others?

Another question, what sealer is best for putting the case halves back together. The service manual I found just says use the correct sealant, but doesn't say what the correct sealant is.

ski-doo583 · 03-13-2016, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treeguy27

Thanks again for the help, I'll order parts. Do all of the on-line parts warehouses sell the same top end kit? After a quick search they all appear the same. Didn't know if some were better quality than others?

Another question, what sealer is best for putting the case halves back together. The service manual I found just says use the correct sealant, but doesn't say what the correct sealant is.

I use permatex# 2 non Harding

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

racin161 · 03-14-2016, 09:24 AM

The kits all pretty much comes from CHINA go figure ???? so yes shop around for the best price. Now for the cases uses Yahmabond or antirobic sealer and please excuse the spelling but it's made by loctite and others. Just got to the auto parts or cycle shop of your choice and pick up a small tube. You only need it for the cases. When installing the bearings and seals pre lube them before installing the seals and use blue loctite on the outer surface of the seals. Once in place I stake the outer seal area with a small chisel or punch in a few places. Fuel mix after rebuild will be 3 oz per gallon for the first tank after that 1 oz per gallon which is 128:1.

LOU

treeguy27 · 03-14-2016, 01:51 PM

Once again, thank you all for the guidance.

Parts have been ordered, now I wait for the big brown truck. Other than the richer mix in the first tank, is there any other break-in procedure I should be doing when I first fire it up? More questions to follow I'm sure as I begin putting it back together.

racin161 · 03-15-2016, 12:02 PM

NOPE

LOU

treeguy27 · 03-31-2016, 02:31 PM

After some delays I am back. The parts place sent me the the wrong top end kit, so I had to wait for the correct one to show up. The motor is back together and running. It seems to be running better than before, but not as big of gains as I had expected. I still have a few questions. I'm only getting 120 lbs of compression. I was expecting more, that's right about where I was before the rebuild. How much can I expect it to increase as the rings seat? Did I screw something up? I put the bevel up on the rings and had the correct end gap, oiled the cylinder good when putting it together.
Would the reed valves affect the compression at all? I know they are worn some, I'm still looking for a replacement reed cage. The cage is worn around where the petals seal. Any one know of a good replacement? Thanks again for all of the guidance. This was my first complete engine rebuild.

cart around · 04-01-2016, 09:33 AM

Did you hone the cylinder to put a good crosshatch on the walls? That helps the rings seat.

03-12-2016, 03:35 PM	#11
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) Thanks again for the help. After some struggling I got the case separated today. Didn't find a bushing on the flywheel side, still haven't got the bearings off of the clutch side. There is a very small groove on the crank on the clutch side, a little bit of a rough spot as well. The seals didn't appear to be so bad that there was any metal to metal contact. I don't know if any of this will cause trouble allowing the new seals to seal properly. I could run a little scotchbrite pad on there and probably clean most of it up. Not sure if that would help or hurt? You can see it in the video, as well as the play in the rod bearing. Any advice on whether that is normal or excessive play? It spins smooth as butter, and doesn't appear to have any up and down play. I can kind of tilt it a tiny bit, but that may just be the lateral play? I'd really like to reuse the crank if possible, but don't want to waste my time if it is definitely not going to last. If I was smart enough I would embed the video, a link will have to work... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njs1ZU_XBTw
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41

03-13-2016, 09:58 AM	#13
racin161 Gone Wild Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,515	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) Your not looking for a bushing but a thin washer behind the bearing when removing the bearings. Clean up the crank with scotch bright and it will be good. LOU
racin161 Gone Wild Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,515

03-13-2016, 03:17 PM	#14
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) Thanks again for the help, I'll order parts. Do all of the on-line parts warehouses sell the same top end kit? After a quick search they all appear the same. Didn't know if some were better quality than others? Another question, what sealer is best for putting the case halves back together. The service manual I found just says use the correct sealant, but doesn't say what the correct sealant is.
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41

03-14-2016, 09:24 AM	#16
racin161 Gone Wild Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,515	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) The kits all pretty much comes from CHINA go figure ???? so yes shop around for the best price. Now for the cases uses Yahmabond or antirobic sealer and please excuse the spelling but it's made by loctite and others. Just got to the auto parts or cycle shop of your choice and pick up a small tube. You only need it for the cases. When installing the bearings and seals pre lube them before installing the seals and use blue loctite on the outer surface of the seals. Once in place I stake the outer seal area with a small chisel or punch in a few places. Fuel mix after rebuild will be 3 oz per gallon for the first tank after that 1 oz per gallon which is 128:1. LOU
racin161 Gone Wild Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,515

03-14-2016, 01:51 PM	#17
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) Once again, thank you all for the guidance. Parts have been ordered, now I wait for the big brown truck. Other than the richer mix in the first tank, is there any other break-in procedure I should be doing when I first fire it up? More questions to follow I'm sure as I begin putting it back together.
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41

Today
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03-12-2016, 08:10 PM	#12
ski-doo583 Getting Wild Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 117	You might also notice it starting harder after the engine is good and warm. That's because the cylinder is getting worn out and when it warms up the cylinder expands and your compression drops Evan more. Motor Needs to be rebuilt. Put new crank bearings and seals in. Buy a new top end kit where you get a brand new jug, piston and rings plus all the gaskets for the top side come in the kit and don't forget to buy a new wrist pin bearing also. You've already replaced the carb so it should run like new. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

03-15-2016, 12:02 PM	#18
racin161 Gone Wild Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,515	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) NOPE LOU
racin161 Gone Wild Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,515

03-31-2016, 02:31 PM	#19
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) After some delays I am back. The parts place sent me the the wrong top end kit, so I had to wait for the correct one to show up. The motor is back together and running. It seems to be running better than before, but not as big of gains as I had expected. I still have a few questions. I'm only getting 120 lbs of compression. I was expecting more, that's right about where I was before the rebuild. How much can I expect it to increase as the rings seat? Did I screw something up? I put the bevel up on the rings and had the correct end gap, oiled the cylinder good when putting it together. Would the reed valves affect the compression at all? I know they are worn some, I'm still looking for a replacement reed cage. The cage is worn around where the petals seal. Any one know of a good replacement? Thanks again for all of the guidance. This was my first complete engine rebuild.
treeguy27 Not Yet Wild Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 41

04-01-2016, 09:33 AM	#20
cart around Test before replacing Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ohio side of the Pennsylvania border. Posts: 3,495	Re: 91 3pg runs better in Reverse (video) Did you hone the cylinder to put a good crosshatch on the walls? That helps the rings seat.

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