D&D vs Admiral vs EMP

[mjroman20]

Originally Posted by Cob

Thanks for your replies.

I emailed EMP with what I'm looking for and I have to say their customer service was not good at all. I received an email asking for a physical address of where I would be using it at. I related that I couldn't give them a single address because I use it at a lot of different places. I said that while on paved roads, it wont be more than a 10% grade and the off road grades will be up to 50%. The response that I got was, without a physical address we dont care and will assume that it's only a 10% grade.

They lost my business.

They ask this so they can pull up topographic data and get a general feel for the gradability. If they don't have an address they just assume its not more than 10% (some average number they came up with based on past orders)

[Cob]

I understand that they need a general area but one week I might be on flat land, and then the next week I'm at camp where the flattest area is the roof!. Its just discouraging the reply that I got after all the great customer service feedback that people talk about. Maybe I took the email out of context? That's why i like to talk to people face to face or at least on the telephone.

[orangeman6]

I can understand you feeling that way, but it’s out of context. Chuck and his wife are both really nice people, and very professional with their business. His wife tries to keep him off the phone because he’ll stay on the line forever with customers. You’ll learn as much about motors, and Chuck , as you want. They really want you to end up with the right setup. That is why they are so particular about filling out the online information form. IIRC, he used to design motors for GE. The motor he customized for me was based on one of his motors.

You’ve got some other good options, but I had such a good experience with them that I wanted to backup the other positive comments.

[djo]

Originally Posted by mjroman20

They ask this so they can pull up topographic data and get a general feel for the gradability. If they don't have an address they just assume its not more than 10% (some average number they came up with based on past orders)

This is what he did with me. He looked at the map of my area and found the steepest grade that I would be driving on. Based on that, he made recommendations for the best motor for me.

Here is just part of the response I received:

Thanks for the interest. To begin with, I will summarize the details of the vehicle, application, and performance. Please correct any errors or bad assumptions and feel free to add any new relevant information.



VEHICLE INFORMATION

2012 Yamaha Drive, 48V, 2 passenger, stock tire (~18" OD assumed), XCT48500 control, DM430-06* motor (stock), roof, windshield, stock gears



APPLICATION INFO and PERFORMANCE TARGETS

Present top speed 23 MPH on level, 25 MPH downhill. Top speed target same, but faster hill climb speed desired as present hill climb speed only about 11 MPH.

Max expected loading 450 pounds.

Topographical review around provided location show most of the grades up to 20%, but some locations with grades as steep as 40%.





NOTES/THOUGHTS/CONCERNS

=====================



TOP SPEED DEFINITION

--------------------

Just so we are using the same definition, EMP defines top speed as the level off top speed achieved on hard flat level ground with a driver only (~200#) in free still air. Addition of weight and grades will increase load on the motor and cause reduced top speed.



INCREASING SPEED ON GRADES

-------------------------

There is no doubt that speed on grades can be increased. You have indicted that the vehicle will only travel about 11 MPH on some uphill grade, but that grade has not been defined. While I am sure we can improve hill climb speed, I am not certain what your target is and what grade this is being defined on. Therefore, I can provide you with some options and I will also simply try to provide a reference of a 20% grade and this should allow you to compare options.

(Also, since the stock system is not stock and I do not know which field maps and settings are in your control, it is not possible to make any definite comparisons to your stock system.



As a reference, if I assume a 20% grade, stock tires, 450 pound load on vehicle, you would need to produce about 21 pound feet of torque from the motor. Following are rough calculations of amp levels required to climb a 20% grade at different speeds.



5 MPH, fully loaded, up 20% grade -- ~100 amps

10 MPH, fully loaded, up 20% grade -- ~215 amps

15 MPH, fully loaded, up 20% grade -- ~350 amps

20 MPH, fully loaded, up 20% grade -- ~500 amps +



(Please note I selected 20% as the grade. You provided a speed of 11 MPH earlier, but I do not know what grade that was and, knowing a bit about your motor, I would bet the grade was much milder.)

[mjroman20]

Originally Posted by Cob

I understand that they need a general area but one week I might be on flat land, and then the next week I'm at camp where the flattest area is the roof!. Its just discouraging the reply that I got after all the great customer service feedback that people talk about. Maybe I took the email out of context? That's why i like to talk to people face to face or at least on the telephone.

There's the issue. He and I both being engineers I can tell you it's a personality of our profession we're all anti-social.

[scottyb]

At issue is resources. Chuck is a finite resource. He can either chit chat on the phone answering the same golf cart questions day after day or he can get to work building motors.
Producing the company product and filling orders is the best use of this man's time. So many people are wanting to talk to somebody like this about their cart and then their friends cart that he could not possibly answer all of everyone's calls and ever get any motors built.
Trust me I know how this goes.

[Conradconrad]

I sent an email to Chuck/EMP with what I had and what I was looking to accomplish.

He was able to give me 4 motor options with descriptions of what sets each option apart from the other. He also included additional options to some of the motors such as heavy duty brush mechanisms and high speed banding.

As ScottyB mentioned, he is a busy guy but he still provides amazing customer support just as ScottyB does too!

I feel that it really helps if you contact him via email with a well written run down of what you need.

For example I ended up with a EMP motor that began its life as a D&D motor

[yurtle]

I'd tell him specifics, like max grade and expected speed for that grade. If you can stand for it to slow down to a reasonable number for the steep hills, he'll have a starting point. Telling him "it varies" doesn't help either of you. To measure grade you can just use a protractor and a string with a weight and convert degrees to % grade.

Another engineer here.

[dundeebarnbuggy]

Originally Posted by yurtle

I'd tell him specifics, like max grade and expected speed for that grade. To measure grade you can just use a protractor and a string with a weight and convert degrees to % grade.

Another engineer here.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by yurtle

I'd tell him specifics, like max grade and expected speed for that grade. If you can stand for it to slow down to a reasonable number for the steep hills, he'll have a starting point. Telling him "it varies" doesn't help either of you. To measure grade you can just use a protractor and a string with a weight and convert degrees to % grade.

Another engineer here.

Something like this?

Grade charts help too.