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Old 06-11-2020, 11:41 PM   #11
R&TBabich
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Default Re: Golf Cart Stops in the middle of driving

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Originally Posted by Kolassus View Post
Are there any “how to’s” or a link to this horizontal mounting bracket? ....
The only reason I can see for a horizontal mounting is the contacts must be getting lifted and moving against gravity when the solenoid is mounted upright.
Mounting horizontally would make it easier for the contacts to be moved.
It's a good design to have the contacts pull in a second coil with higher resistance to lower the current flow required to hold the contacts closed since they can be closed for some time.
I think the wiring for the OEM relay only needed to provide .25A to pull-in the contacts.
I think an MZJ400A needs 3A to pull-in the contacts.
The 15+ feet of 16ga wire for the solenoid pull-in circuit which also supplies 4 signals to the controller might be near capacity to supply 3A for the MZJ400A.
Add some heat from weather or a long drive and the resistance in the wiring goes up a bit, too.
I'm making a few upgrades to our cart and while cleaning up the wiring I am going to replace the solenoid wiring with 14ga.
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Old 06-12-2020, 06:01 AM   #12
Sergio
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Default Re: Golf Cart Stops in the middle of driving

Making and Breaking DC current is very hard on contacts (compared to AC current) so any DC switch needs to be fast action.

The "making part" (Closing) is not a problem since those Solenoids have a very strong magnetic pull and quick close the contacts without much bounce.

When the contacts "break" (Open) however, there is only the strength of the spring pushing the contacts away from each other, so if there is any current flowing at the time, it increases the possibility of an arc being formed which can eventually create "pits" on the surface of the contacts.

Those pits can later cause the contacts to stick together instead of releasing which is referred to as a "welded solenoid".

A properly wired cart should not have current flowing through the Solenoid when it opens and Your particular version of that Solenoid design may have
a different specification.

This is an old document from Alltrax for one of those designs, note the mounting orientation note:
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1jWoK...f_dozDIb3JVEYT
There is no special bracket, You just mount it with the "studs" horizontally.

Side note: You will also notice that on SW202 reversing contactor where the contacts "drop" when they release (Instead of going UP like the MZJ), that they recommend to not mount the contactor with the "studs" pointing down, that is for the same reason, to minimize arc damage during contact release.

The length of those wires will not cause any issue, there is just not enough resistance even in 100ft of 18ga (0.6Ω) to limit the activation voltage of the Solenoid.
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:58 AM   #13
R&TBabich
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Default Re: Golf Cart Stops in the middle of driving

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Making and Breaking DC current is very hard on contacts (compared to AC current) so any DC switch needs to be fast action.

The "making part" (Closing) is not a problem since those Solenoids have a very strong magnetic pull and quick close the contacts without much bounce.

.....

The length of those wires will not cause any issue, there is just not enough resistance even in 100ft of 18ga (0.6Ω) to limit the activation voltage of the Solenoid.
This discussion has been great, I'm learning how these solenoids work.
This explains why an MZJ400A uses 3A for the pull-in, it certainly doesn't require 3A to pull in some contacts, but 3A will pull them in fast.
The point I have concern about is the OEM circuit wiring is setup for a solenoid that only needs .25A for the pull-in.
The OP and other threads I've read have problems getting the solenoid to activate.
Various wiring issues can lead to voltage/current drop - poor connections, corrosion, broken wires, heat.
What happens to the MZJ400A solenoid pull-in if the circuit can only supply 2.5A?
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Old 06-12-2020, 10:08 AM   #14
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Default Re: Golf Cart Stops in the middle of driving

The wire length is definitely not a limitation, even 1000ft of 18ga on the circuit would still allow the MZJ to close since it only needs 22v at the coil.

What prevents them from closing sometimes is when the small current contact on the bottom does not close back which keeps the two coil in series.

While both coils on the Solenoid in series have enough magnetic strength to keep the contacts closed, they can not pull contacts that are open.
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Old 06-12-2020, 06:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Golf Cart Stops in the middle of driving

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
The wire length is definitely not a limitation, even 1000ft of 18ga on the circuit would still allow the MZJ to close since it only needs 22v at the coil.

What prevents them from closing sometimes is when the small current contact on the bottom does not close back which keeps the two coil in series.

While both coils on the Solenoid in series have enough magnetic strength to keep the contacts closed, they can not pull contacts that are open.
When the secondary small current contact on the bottom does not return properly and stays connected sounds like a mechanical problem with the solenoid.
With both coils engaged they only need .16A to keep the contacts closed, but they do not have enough current to pull-in the contacts.
This is a way the solenoid can fail.
What about the case where the supply circuit can not provide the 3A needed for the primary coil to engage?
I think we agree there are other things that can degrade circuits that are not related to wire length.
Wire length and heat do add resistance lowering current flow, even if it is minimal.
Any corrosion, like at a sonic weld, could limit the amount of current a circuit can carry. Corroded switch contacts. I've had multi-strand wiring break strands down to where there are only 2 or 3 strands left which adversely affects current carrying capacity. In these scenarios I think the circuit would still measure 48V. The main generator of the magnetic field in a coil is the amount of current flowing thru the coil wires, not the voltage potential.
I still wonder what would happen in an MZJ if the current supplied to the pull-in coil is only 2A.
For an OEM solenoid coil 2A would be enough for it to pull-in the contacts.
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