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Electric EZGO Electric EZ GO Marathon, Medalist, TXT and RXV.



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Old 11-01-2014, 06:15 PM   #1
buddy48
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Default New Electrical Problem

Have new electrical problem and if anyone can help i'd greatly appreciate it!

I have a 94.5 TXT that i completely rebuilt in March 2010. New Alltrax 400 amp controller, heavy duty F&R switch, EMP two speed motor and new batteries. Everything was fine until yesterday....

I needed new batteries so I purchased a new set and while I was at it I decided to remove the torque/speed switch from my EMP motor. So, I called EMP and got directions on how to jumper it out for the torque only setting and I did, LR1 jumpered to LR2.

With the batteries out I decide to clean her up real good and lightly pressure washed the carriage/frame (maybe caused my problem). After installing new batteries and charging them she won't go. When you press the throttle the led on the alltrax flashes green 4 times, goes off for a second and then stays on green; everything I've read says this is what it should do. With the key on and not pressing the throttle the led isn't on at all (i don't think its supposed to be).

So, where should I start looking? I made sure that nothing crazy happened with the motor. I have continuity between S1-S2 and A1-A2 but nothing between any A or S terminal.

What can you all recommend I look at next? I do not have a splash cover over my F&R switch so I figure that possibly the little micro switches could have gotten wet and failed?
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Old 11-02-2014, 10:17 AM   #2
JohnnieB
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Sounds like the controller is powering up normally, which more or less verifies that the Reed, Key and Pedal switches are okay, as well as MS-2 on the F/R assembly. (You are right, it only powers up when the pedal is pushed)

Does the solenoid click when the pedal is pushed?
If not, we have to troubleshoot the activation circuit.

If it is clicking, attach your DVM test leads between the B- and M- terminals on the controller.

Lift rear wheel s off ground and put on jackstands.
Press pedal only far enough to make solenoid click.
You should measure FULL battery pack voltage.

If not, there is an open somewhere in the high current circuit. (F/R switch contacts, motor brushes, high current cable connections, etc.)

If so, Connect the DVM between Pins 2 & 3 on the AXE controller.
When the pedal is pushed just far enough for solenoid to click, you should read 10V and when the pedal is on floor you should read 6V.

-----------
Wet ITS senors behave badly and the box under the floor mat isn't waterproof.

Hair driers work for drying the out, sometimes.
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Old 11-02-2014, 05:21 PM   #3
buddy48
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Sounds like the controller is powering up normally, which more or less verifies that the Reed, Key and Pedal switches are okay, as well as MS-2 on the F/R assembly. (You are right, it only powers up when the pedal is pushed)

Does the solenoid click when the pedal is pushed?
If not, we have to troubleshoot the activation circuit.

If it is clicking, attach your DVM test leads between the B- and M- terminals on the controller.

Lift rear wheel s off ground and put on jackstands.
Press pedal only far enough to make solenoid click.
You should measure FULL battery pack voltage.

If not, there is an open somewhere in the high current circuit. (F/R switch contacts, motor brushes, high current cable connections, etc.)

If so, Connect the DVM between Pins 2 & 3 on the AXE controller.
When the pedal is pushed just far enough for solenoid to click, you should read 10V and when the pedal is on floor you should read 6V.

-----------
Wet ITS senors behave badly and the box under the floor mat isn't waterproof.

Hair driers work for drying the out, sometimes.
Mr. JohnnieB thanks for the help!

So here's what I got after following your instructions.

Solenoid clicks when pedal is pushed. The full battery pack voltage is 38.3 volts.

When measuring across B- to M- I get 36.6v.

When the leads are on terminals 2 and 3 I get 13.4 volts when the pedal is barely pushed and 13.4 when it is all the way to the floor. Not 10 and 6 like you said it should have been.

So does that indicate where the problem is?
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Old 11-03-2014, 07:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy48 View Post
Mr. JohnnieB thanks for the help!

So here's what I got after following your instructions.

1. Solenoid clicks when pedal is pushed. The full battery pack voltage is 38.3 volts.

2. When measuring across B- to M- I get 36.6v.

3. When the leads are on terminals 2 and 3 I get 13.4 volts when the pedal is barely pushed and 13.4 when it is all the way to the floor. Not 10 and 6 like you said it should have been.

4. So does that indicate where the problem is?
1.

2. 1.7V is missing. Dirty contacts someplace in high current connections and/or F/R switch contacts, but probably won't stop cart from moving.
(Connections and contacts will get hot during operation, so they should be fixed)

Does the 36.6V drop to zero when pedal is push to floor?

3. Do you have four 0.250" push-on connectors on top of the AXE controller, or a single 6-pin Molex plug with five pins used?

If it is the Molex plug, measure between Pins 1 & 2, rather than 2 & 3.

If it is the four separate push-on connector type, the voltage is too high.
Check the inline connector on the cable coming out of the pedal box and the voltage across the ITS sensor in the pedal box.

4. Not yet, but narrowing it down some. The battery pack is probably okay, the high current circuit is iffy and the jury is still out on the rest of the system.
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Old 11-03-2014, 08:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Alright here's what I did sir.

Found two connectors, both on the controller B+ post, that have signs of over heating.

When the pedal is pressed the voltage across B- to M- goes to 38.2v.


Measuring voltages on the ITS I get:
Across red to white 0 volts at rest and 37.7v when the pedal is pushed.
Across green to black 35.2 volts at rest and 36.7 when the pedal is pushed.
Across green to white I get 36.3v and 37.2 when the pedal is pushed.

Not sure if I need to do more with the ITS.

I looked at the inline connector from the ITS and it looks fine. Couldn't actually check it because it is between the battery and the inside of the body where I can't reach it. Do I need to do more with it.

Oh and I do have the four separate pin connections, not the molex plug.
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Old 11-04-2014, 07:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy48 View Post
Alright here's what I did sir.

1. Found two connectors, both on the controller B+ post, that have signs of over heating.

When the pedal is pressed the voltage across B- to M- goes to 38.2v.

2. Measuring voltages on the ITS I get:
Across red to white 0 volts at rest and 37.7v when the pedal is pushed.
Across green to black 35.2 volts at rest and 36.7 when the pedal is pushed.
Across green to white I get 36.3v and 37.2 when the pedal is pushed.

Not sure if I need to do more with the ITS.

3. I looked at the inline connector from the ITS and it looks fine. Couldn't actually check it because it is between the battery and the inside of the body where I can't reach it. Do I need to do more with it.

4. Oh and I do have the four separate pin connections, not the molex plug.
1.

2. The four wires in the box go to two different circuits.
The red and green wires go to the pedal microswitch, which is working. (Controller is powering up)
The black and white wires go to the ITS sensor and we want to measure the voltage between them, just like we did at the controller. The other end of these two wires attach to Pins 2 & 3 on the controller.

3. This connector is a common source of problems. The male/female connections get corroded over time, but you have to pull them apart to see the corrosion and even then it may be difficult to see unless you know what to look for.

Since it most likely got wet during the power washing, it is a prime suspect.

Take it apart and spray clean the contacts.

4. Good. I wanted to be sure I was telling you the correct pins to measure between. 2 & 3 should have the black and white wires (ITS) on them.

-----------

The problem is the controller or the ITS. Pull the Black and White wires of Pins 2 & 3 and measure the voltage between the pins with no wire connected to them.

It should be about 10V, if it is much higher (13V or more), the controller is probably bad. (If it is programmed for an ITS throttle - four green flashes when it powers up)

Also, measure the voltage between the disconnected black and white wires. The controller is the voltage source for the ITS sensor, so if you measure any voltage at all on the wires when they are disconnected from the controller, there is voltage bleeding over from the pedal microswitch circuit at the in-line connector, on inside the pedal box.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:26 AM   #7
buddy48
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

10-4!! I will pull it apart, inspect it, and clean the contacts tonight. What blows my mind is how quickly the problem developed. That's why I think it has to be something with the washing it that caused the issue.

I do however feel like I need to replace the two cables on the B+ post of the controller that show signs of overheating. I think that can wait until I have the main problem resolved, but it is maintenance none the less that needs to occur.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy48 View Post
10-4!! I will pull it apart, inspect it, and clean the contacts tonight. What blows my mind is how quickly the problem developed. That's why I think it has to be something with the washing it that caused the issue.

I do however feel like I need to replace the two cables on the B+ post of the controller that show signs of overheating. I think that can wait until I have the main problem resolved, but it is maintenance none the less that needs to occur.
Just plain old everyday humidity can cause problems with that connector and all sorts of weird things happen when partial shorts develop between the wires going through it.

The pedal switch circuit typically works or doesn't work, so it is easy to find, but when you start getting crosstalk between the pedal switch circuit and ITS circuits, or just between the black and white wires of the ITS circuit, the cart will do things that make cart technicians pull their hair out while troubleshooting.

I have had that problem in my cart yet, but when I do, I'm going to cut the connector off and solder the wires together.

Yep, get the cart running first and then take care of the routine maintenance issues. Any high current cable or connection that gets hot (excessively warm actually) needs to be fixed/replaced or more serious damage will occur.
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:31 PM   #9
buddy48
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

Okay...now I'm even more baffled....

I took the 4 pin connector apart and did see what I thought was corrosion. Cleaned it up as best I could with electrical contact cleaner. Reconnected everything and then it got really crazy. Nothing between the black and white at the ITS.

So I took the connection apart and tested everything there at the 4 pin connector on the battery side. Here's what I got:

Across green to black I got 33.1v
Across red to green I got 35.6v
Across green to white I got 35v.
Nothing from white to black (I don't think there should be anything there since those are essentially inputs)

Now here's the key I believe. After I cleaned the 4 pin connector I reconnected it and put everything back together. Not once did the solenoid pull in...
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:47 AM   #10
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Default Re: New Electrical Problem

The pedal microswitch (red and green wires) and the ITS sensor (black and white wires are two separate circuits and you ought to limit yourself to troubleshooting one or the other of you may get baffled.

If the solenoid no longer clicks, there is a problem in the circuit the red and white wires are part of. That circuit is highlighted in red on the attached schematic.

Across green to black I got 33.1v Invalid test - Mixing circuits.

Across red to green I got 35.6v This means the pedal switch contacts are not making contact. Was the pedal pushed?

Across green to white I got 35v. Invalid test - Mixing circuits.

Nothing from white to black (I don't think there should be anything there since those are essentially inputs) There ought to be someplace between 6V and 10V between these two wires depending on the pedal position.
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