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Old 10-08-2018, 03:51 PM   #1
bluwtr49
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Default Motor Speed Sensor Issue

I'm hoping someone can help me out with an issue with my motor speed sensor. D&D won't offer any tech assistance what-so-ever due to contractile obligations.

The problem is that the sensor signal is about 1000 rpm low from the actual speed. For example, at 27 mph the speed sensor is reading 2900 rpm and all info I can come up with it should be running at 4,000 rpm with my 215/50 R13 tires (22" dia) and 10.35 gearing. Before I changed to the Alltrax controller it would do 27 with a controller max speed setting of 3700. Now with that speed setting I can do ~35 mph but my speed calculation suggests the motor speed is actually closer 5,500.

Today I set a 3000 rpm speed limit and ran it hard with my computer attached logging the operational data. Log data showed the controller is doing it's thing limiting the motor speed to 3000 and I clocked 26-28 mph by gps.

So, is the speed sensor in our motors designed to only work with the Sevcon or is something else amiss. If so, can I replace the sensor with a different one. How does one trouble shoot the sensor???

Thanks for any insight.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:01 PM   #2
Sergio
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

If You have an Alltrax XCT Controller that is an easy fix, just change the pole count to 4-poles using the Alltrax software.

The cart should run better as well since the Alltrax uses the rpms to dynamically modify the motor field map.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:20 AM   #3
bluwtr49
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

Thanks for the reply. I do have the controller set for 4 poles. When I first installed the Alltrax I didn't know which setting to use since neither Columbia nor D&D would speak with me about the motor. I first tried it at 2 poles but the speed was 50% of normal so I change to 4 pole and all was well. Has the same issue with the field map and only Alltrax would help.

I think the most frustrating thing about the swap is/was the lack of information and willingness to supply assistance. You would think I was asking for the keys to the universe and the silence has been deafening. Out friendly tech guy on the site has been great but I suspect there are limits to what he is allowed to speak of.

Fortunately this speed sensor issue is a detail that, while nice to have resolved, is not a huge problem.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:28 PM   #4
bluwtr49
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluwtr49 View Post
Thanks for the reply. I do have the controller set for 4 poles. When I first installed the Alltrax I didn't know which setting to use since neither Columbia nor D&D would speak with me about the motor. I first tried it at 2 poles but the speed was 50% of normal so I change to 4 pole and all was well. Has the same issue with the field map and only Alltrax would help.

I think the most frustrating thing about the swap is/was the lack of information and willingness to supply assistance. You would think I was asking for the keys to the universe and the silence has been deafening. Out friendly tech guy on the site has been great but I suspect there are limits to what he is allowed to speak of.

Fortunately this speed sensor issue is a detail that, while nice to have resolved, is not a huge problem.
Correction to the above post. The Alltrax has provisions for 4 pole or 8 pole speed sensors and mine is set for 8 pole. Just spoke with Alltrax and they don't understand why I'm ~33% off unless Columbia used something other than a 4 or 8 pole magnet. They suggested I just order an 8 pole magnet and swap it out.
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluwtr49 View Post
Correction to the above post. The Alltrax has provisions for 4 pole or 8 pole speed sensors and mine is set for 8 pole. Just spoke with Alltrax and they don't understand why I'm ~33% off unless Columbia used something other than a 4 or 8 pole magnet. They suggested I just order an 8 pole magnet and swap it out.
How are You measuring RPM?

Make sure you have the other variables like gear ratio and tire diameter correct if You are calculating the rpm based on your speed.

You could have a broken magnet or one that was modified on a bench grinder, did You already check the magnet?

Otherwise replacing it with a known pole count sounds like a good idea.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:45 PM   #6
bluwtr49
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
How are You measuring RPM?

Make sure you have the other variables like gear ratio and tire diameter correct if You are calculating the rpm based on your speed.

You could have a broken magnet or one that was modified on a bench grinder, did You already check the magnet?

Otherwise replacing it with a known pole count sounds like a good idea.
I have no way to physically measure the motor rpm except with the speed sensor. By using the Alltrax monitoring function I'm satisfied that the controller is working as designed with the signal being supplied by the sensor. Indirectly i know by calculation what speed the car should be running at various motor rpm. Even found a web site to do the calcs for me. Tire size was physically measured and double checked from the manufactures web site. The 215/50R13 tires have a diameter of 22" Gear ratio of 10.35 came from the Columbia operators manual.

Also, before the controller change the car was indeed running at 26 mph with a controller speed setting of 3700 rpm.

If I look at all the info and rounding the number to 4000 rpm with an 8 pole stetting, I would have 2000 rpm with 4 pole, and 3000 rpm with 6 poles.

All this leads me to consider that Columbia is using a 6 pole magnet for use with the Sevcon controller. With 6 poles all the numbers line up.

Now the problem with buying a new 8 pole magnet is how to find one that fits the D&D motor. I'll keep trying Columbia but the parts dept is tough to get hold of. Best guess is they have no idea of the pole count. On the upside, everything is working very well so this is just a detail that bothers me more than it should.

I'll check with my tech and see if he might have a dead motor lying around that he can pull the magnet from and use as a reference.

I'm open to any suggestions.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

Post a picture of the magnet so we can see what it looks like.

There is a nice speed calculator on this site as well, it is under the "quick links" on the top right of the menu bar.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:56 PM   #8
bluwtr49
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Default Re: Motor Speed Sensor Issue

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Post a picture of the magnet so we can see what it looks like.

There is a nice speed calculator on this site as well, it is under the "quick links" on the top right of the menu bar.
I'm undecided as to what I'll do about the magnet. Everything is working fine as long as I compensate for the inaccuracy with controller settings. I'm not sure I want to go to the trouble of getting at the motor end.

Thanks for the tip on the speed calculator. Works great and confirmed what I thought I knew.
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