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Old 01-15-2022, 04:28 PM   #11
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

The windings in your picture look normal to me. Motors get dirty inside with brush dust. The key is what the Commutator and brushes look like. ALso, you should have no continuity from any motor terminals to the motor case and the field terminals should be isolated from the armature terminals. A1 to A2 will measure very low ohms (1-2) which is hard to measure on a standard DVM. F1 to F2 will read higher but still not more than maybe 5 ohms. If your brushes are bad, then A1 to A2 may measure very high.
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Old 01-15-2022, 04:34 PM   #12
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

OK I have 2 ohms between the field posts, 1 ohm between the armature posts, no continuity between the field posts and the casing, and 1 ohm between the armature posts and the casing (both posts have continuity to the casing). Perhaps the brush spring clips that may have come loose are sitting down in there creating continuity to the casing? Really wish I had my sockets!!!
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Old 01-15-2022, 04:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

I just remembered I had a socket for my impact drill and so was able to take it apart. Here are the pics (three attached) - brushes all came loose in #1. #'s 2 and 3 look normal to me but I don't know what I'm looking at. What's that thing that looks like a piece of gum near the top?! Also - what would cause the brushes to fail like that? Too much heat? Too much current? I've never seen the cart go over 300 amps, but maybe that's too much for this motor? Over-revving?
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Old 01-15-2022, 07:57 PM   #14
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Probably too much heat. Not sure what the bottom brush holder is made of but it looks like it came apart allowing the brush holder to hit the case. That explains your continuity to the case. Commutator looks pretty burned but that can be cleaned up by a motor shop. Maybe the brush holder assembly can be replaced. Worth a try anyway to save the motor.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:17 PM   #15
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

OK. I think I will try to have it repaired so I can resell it. But feels like I need a different motor better suited for my hilly application with passengers. I haven't heard back from D&D on my current ES-24N-14 specs, but I can confirm from its length that it is not their highest torque 502-1 motor. I'm guessing it's their speed/torque option or close to it. So that's an option to get the 502-1. But I was also considering the Admiral long-stack like ScottyB suggested. It has a LOT of power. Does anyone know whether my G19 would take the B4 or the D4? And does anyone know what the equivalent highest torque motor part number from FSIP would be? Trying to see my options for price, availability, etc.
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Old 01-17-2022, 10:55 AM   #16
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

I heard somewhere that D&D started using plastic brush holders but I can’t confirm that. Could be your issue.
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Old 01-17-2022, 12:04 PM   #17
Dave in VA
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Plowmans has their motors specially made by D&D...

https://www.plowmanscarts.com/parts_36_38_volt.html
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Old 01-17-2022, 03:52 PM   #18
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Well here are pics of the commutator after taking the armature out. Looks like one lifted and damaged bar with a few others that began to lift. I'm assuming this is not possible or practical to repair. The brush holder plate is made of a fiber reinforced plastic. I'm guessing something caused a bar to lift, which then caught the brushes while rotating and then the brush holders were ripped out of the holding plate. I'm disappointed that a motor would melt down so quickly. After melting the first one I installed thermocouples on the second motor casing so I could monitor it, and never let it get above 180F, even after it rested. Also had a shunt installed to monitor voltage and current constantly. So not sure how a class H motor could have such a catastrophic failure.

I decided to buy an Admiral D4 which is their highest torque long stack motor so should be good now. But unfortunately have spent $1k on two dead motors. May clean up the armature on #2 and keep it on my desk because it's cool looking. Thanks for everyone's help!
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:29 PM   #19
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

I agree that armature is done for. Not sure why you would be killing motors. My D&D experience over 6 years has been great. I have a temp probe on my motor and it runs far cooler than the Hitachi motor it replaced. I probably have 8k miles on it at least, maybe more.
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Old 01-17-2022, 05:55 PM   #20
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

I'm not sure either. Maybe a field map that doesn't work right. Ive read in old posts that Alltrax maps were outside of D&Ds recommendations. Too late now unfortunately. Will keep a close eye on things with the new motor when it arrives.
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