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Old 12-14-2021, 08:33 AM   #1
nanooman
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Default 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

I have a circa 2000 txt 36v limo that I'm fairly certain is DCS. We have noticed several times creeping around the farm said it will seemingly get overheated and die. Now, it is exhibiting similar behavior under normal flat terrain conditions in short distances. I recently cleaned the batteries off as there was quite a bit of corrosion on the hold downs, and now I am noticing there is voltage to the chassis. I don't know what step to take next to figure out whether the motor, the controller, or the solenoid is somehow grounding out to the chassis. I've visually inspected all over the place and see no pinched or overheated wires anywhere. The voltage on the batteries are reading totally fine with a multimeter. Interestingly, the voltmeter I ordered from Scotty is reading about a volt lower. We were considering upgrading to 48v A/C, so maybe now is the time.
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Old 12-14-2021, 08:36 AM   #2
nanooman
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

I will add that with the switch in the tow position, voltage from batteries to chassis is about 2 volts. With the switch in the run position, the voltage is much much higher. One more detail, we have noticed recently that sometimes with the reverse switch in the reverse position, the cart will still move forward. I couldn't find any obvious issues with the switch itself, leading me to think that there is a problem with the controller.
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Old 12-14-2021, 10:23 AM   #3
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

I doubt that this is your problem.....but maybe....double check your cables that go to the motor. Where the cables "go around" the battery frame....the cables could have worn through causing a ground.

Ask me how I know this.
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Old 12-14-2021, 11:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

Going slow in a DC cart draws much more amps and therefore creates more heat than going at moderate speeds. What you probably had happen was the controller overheat and shutdown.

Every time the controller overheats and shuts down it causes a little damage and makes it more susceptible to doing it again and again while requiring less work. Until eventually under normal conditions on flat ground.

If you don't have the worn-through cable issue then you *most likely* need a new controller.

Going to 48V will add significantly to your torque and if you have a new aftermarket controller you can increase your speed dramatically too. If it were me I'd stay DC but my use-case may be very different than yours. So if you want an AC system it is a good time to do that upgrade when you (likely) need a new controller anyway.

As for transient voltage, some minor voltage is common. 2v isn't concerning but what is the V when the cart is on?
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Old 12-14-2021, 12:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

FWIW:

The voltage you read on the body, frame and other undesired places may be due to the combination of imperfect insulators and measuring with a voltmeter with a high input impedance. If you used an old analog voltmeter or placed a 1KΩ between the test leads, it would go away.

There are no perfect insulators, so some leakage current exists in and around all electrical devices. The analog voltmeters of yesteryear typically had an input impedance of 20KΩ/V, which was low enough to bleed off the leakage current so no voltage was measured. (Technically, some voltage was measured, just not enough to noticeably move the pointer.)

Even the inexpensive digital voltmeters sold these days have an input impedance of 1MegOhm or higher, so you are able to measure a voltage on just about any surface in the same room as a battery or other source of electrical energy.

------------
Of course you want to make sure no bare wires are touching the frame or other exposed surfaces, but there will be some voltage due to the unavoidable leakage currents.
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Old 12-14-2021, 07:31 PM   #6
nanooman
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

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Originally Posted by bronsonj View Post
Going to 48V will add significantly to your torque and if you have a new aftermarket controller you can increase your speed dramatically too. If it were me I'd stay DC but my use-case may be very different than yours. So if you want an AC system it is a good time to do that upgrade when you (likely) need a new controller anyway.

As for transient voltage, some minor voltage is common. 2v isn't concerning but what is the V when the cart is on?
I'm interested in why you would stay DC. This is a farm cart and kid hauler, so carrying around feed and the like wouldn't be abnormal.

Voltage was jumping around in the 20's, 30's even up into the 50's
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Old 12-14-2021, 07:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nanooman View Post
One more detail, we have noticed recently that sometimes with the reverse switch in the reverse position, the cart will still move forward. I couldn't find any obvious issues with the switch itself, leading me to think that there is a problem with the controller.
Assuming it's a DCS cart ( as stated in original post ) , place the cart in REVERSE on the handle and read for battery pack voltage on pin 4 ( orange wire ) at the controller. Default in the controller is forward, and when in reverse, voltage goes to pin 4 and switches the controller to reverse. If it doesn't switch to reverse and you find no or reduced voltage on the orange, then the orange wire may be pinched and shorted to ground somewhere between the F/R switch and the controller. If you DO read battery voltage at pin 4, and the cart doesnt switch to reverse, then it's a controller issue.
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Old 12-15-2021, 08:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

With tow switch off, I'm reading about 6v to ground. In run, the digital meter is reading about 24v. Analog meter reads about 12v.
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Old 12-15-2021, 12:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

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Originally Posted by nanooman View Post
With tow switch off, I'm reading about 6v to ground. In run, the digital meter is reading about 24v. Analog meter reads about 12v.
The voltmeter becomes part of the circuit when measuring voltage, so the resulting circuit is the voltmeters resistance (input impedance) in series with resistance (or conductance) of whatever insulation exists between the frame and the distributed B+ path. Ohm's law says I=V/R, so when you read 24V with the DVM there is 24µA flowing through the meter and insulation. (If the input impedance of the DVM is 1MegOhm.)

I the input impedance of the analog voltmeter is 20,000Ω/V, the 12V reading on the analog meter indicates 50µA flowing through the meter and insulation.

If the battery pack voltage was known, you could subtract the voltage drop across the voltage meter from it and use Ohm's laws to calculate the resistance value for the insulation.

Ideally, it ought to be higher than 5MegOhms. If not, it is time to break out the baking soda and wash down the batteries and other stuff in the battery compartment.


Note: The µA I calculated were based on the input impedance stated, so the values have to be verified in the respective owner manuals for the meters.
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Old 12-15-2021, 02:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: 36v TXT grounding out, overheating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nanooman View Post
I'm interested in why you would stay DC. This is a farm cart and kid hauler, so carrying around feed and the like wouldn't be abnormal.
For me, bang for the buck. An Alltrax aftermarket controller on 48V is substantively cheaper than a Navitas Controller, Motor, wiring harnes and 48V. Plus for me, I have no need of an AC cart. I pull a big, heavy Christmas float a few times during the Christmas season on flat ground. Other than that the biggest load my cart sees would be my family of four driving on pavement.

Lots of people are perfectly happy with an upgraded Alltrax controller just like lots of people are perfectly happy with a Navitas AC system.

The torque and speed increase with the Alltrax may be all you need. If you need/want even more then you can go Navitas. I went Alltrax and Lithium and have incredible acceleration in my cart, wheelies if I want and sometimes wheelies if I don't want...
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