Battery swap benefits?

[sleepyluke]

Well it looks like I am about in the market for a set of batteries. I currently have a spare 12V running accessories under the seat, so that spare battery spot is taken. What are the benefits to running 42V or 48V? i know there is a big cost curve going to be associated, so trying to decide if it is worth it. I have an Alltrax 500 currently set about 425 Amps and will eventually swap the motor or have it rebuilt for more torque, not really interested in more speed at ths point, it runs about 25 on flat ground and for any one else (including kids) that gets into the cart and takes off, that is plenty. Anyway, what are the benefits to upgrading?

What are my benefits and downfall to swapping to 6 8V batteries in the same location? Is there somewhere to cram another extra battery under the seat to run 42V?

As I understand it normally Amp = torque and Volt = speed.

I am just not sure $400ish for a new charger and $150 for an extra battery or some combination on top of the $600-$800 for the batteries is equal going to see substatial gains, but maybe it does, and that is why I keep coming back to the experts here.

Thanks for any advise you want to pass my way.

[Sir Nuke]

Luke, going from 36v to 48v with your set up will net you roughly 30% MORE torque and speed.....and with everything else remaining the same....your RUN TIME will be extended.

AND to get you the best deal on a charger, you need to go to ScottyB at CARTSUNLUMITED.NET. for starters its a lot less than the $400 you quoted.....($285) and its a DPI charger which has a float/maintainer function to keep your batteries at their peak.

[JohnnieB]

A 48V pack made from 8V-170AH batteries will give you approximately the same Run-Time as a 36V pack made from 6V-225AH batteries. Higher AH 8V batteries will give you more Run-Time, but not as much as a 42V pack made from seven 6V-225AH batteries.

A DPI Accusense charger in either 42V or 48V is <$300.

Upping the pack voltage will give you more torque as well as speed, but probably not much more speed because your cart is inefficient at the top end. IIRC, you have a PDS and with an aftermarket controller that doesn't use a motor speed sensor, the top speed on 23" tires should be around 30MPH rather than 25MPH. (Low pressure tires?)

With a stock PDS motor and a DCX400 controller I got 24MPH on 18.3" tires at 36V and 28MPH when I upped the pack to 42V.

Your controller will work on 36V, 42V or 48V, but You describe your solenoid a "HD", so I'm not sure it it will have to be changed if you up the pack voltage. The Super-Duty (400A/1000A) solenoid I have works at 36V, 42V and 48V, so I didn't have to swap it out to change pack voltages. (If you got the Alltrax 500A controller as part of a kit from Carts Unlimited. you have the Super-Duty solenoid rather than the Heavy-Duty one. )

Unlike 6V batteries, both terminals are on the same side of an 8V battery, so you may need some longer interconnecting cables within the battery pack.

If you do have a PDS, there is room in front of the controller for a small accessory battery or a DC to DC converter, freeing up the space on the driver side for a seventh battery.

My guess is that the least expensive voltage upgrade is going to a 6 x 8V battery pack, which will also give you the greatest performance boost.

As mentioned earlier, you may not see much speed gain, but low end torque (acceleration) will be noticeably better and the cart won't slow as much going uphill.


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Just noticed Sir Nuke's post.
Here is a comparison of various 8V batteries. The higher the AH rating, the longer the Run-Time.

[sleepyluke]

Johnnie, you are correct on all assumtions, I do have a PDS with the upgrades from ScottyB, so I guess I have the Super Duty solenoid rather than a crappy little Heavy Duty one!

I would like the more run time, so may look that direction, and I guess I was looking at something wrong, because I was pricing chargers from Scotty, but not looking when I posted, just remembering total in my head.

I was looking to go above the standard ratings for this battery purchase on 6volt, but at 42/48 I may run standard.

Decisions decisions

OK, has anyone upgraded and regretted it?

Thanks again guys

[Olman]

After reading all the posts and suggestions on a 48 volt upgrade I went with 8 230AH 6 volt batteries. I found a great battery box that holds the two extra batteries end to end that fits perfectly in the bag holder and under my flip rear seat. http://www.allbatterysalesandservice...cfm/4,576.html. I also tried a Save-a-Battery charger/maintainer to charge the 48 volt pack. I keep the charger plugged in all the time I am not riding the cart. It keeps the pack at 54.4 volts. It will charge the pack fully over night if I don't go below 75% SOC. I have a series cart with an EMP 5.0 2 speed motor with a 550 amp controller. Before the 48 volt upgrade, my speed on flat ground was 24mph. After the upgrade, my speed bounces between 29 and 30mph with I'm guessing around 20% increase in torque.

I am very happy with the upgrade and consider it money well spent. I haven't checked it but am sure my range has increased as well.

Dave
shopsaveabatterycom/48-VOLT-50-WATT-Vehicle-Battery-Charger-w-Auto-Pulse-2365-48.htmI found the charger cheaper here:www.jbtoolsales.com/save-a-battery-2365-48-charger-maintainer-48v-50w/"wwwjbtoolsales.com/save-a-battery-2365-48-charger-maintainer-48v-50w/

[yurtle]

I went with 8 6 volt batteries and am happy I did. Mine's a series, not a sepex like yours, but if you can swing 8 batteries, your run time will be better.

[sleepyluke]

I would rather not use my bag well as it gets used a good bit for my wife carrying bird food around the yard, and as long as she is happy using it, i get to keep playing!

Ok, Johnnie, or whoever, I have read several threads around here and other places that range from loss of run time to a gain of 30% run time going with 6 8V batteries. Is there an actual calcuation for run time? I figure this is wrong, but my guessing is that a standard pack of 225AH gives you 1350 available AHs (my technical term) but 6 8V batteries at 170AH is only 1020 available.

Or is it per cell giving 36 volts at 8100 and at 48 volts 8160. I would like the run time and torque over a speed increase, and think I am going to do it, but really trying to figure the best for the buck and even more for the space.

Thanks again

[Sir Nuke]

Luke.....if you really want to up the run time.....what you should, seeing as how using 6-8v's is best for you, do is to get a set of batteries that are at the TOP of the chart that JohnnyB attached above. I did something very similar.....although I have a 36v cart, its been modified quite a bit.....but I bought batteries that are close to the top of the 6v chart.....and I easily have a 25 to 30 mile range on a single charge......

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by sleepyluke

I would rather not use my bag well as it gets used a good bit for my wife carrying bird food around the yard, and as long as she is happy using it, i get to keep playing!

Ok, Johnnie, or whoever, I have read several threads around here and other places that range from loss of run time to a gain of 30% run time going with 6 8V batteries. Is there an actual calcuation for run time? I figure this is wrong, but my guessing is that a standard pack of 225AH gives you 1350 available AHs (my technical term) but 6 8V batteries at 170AH is only 1020 available.

Or is it per cell giving 36 volts at 8100 and at 48 volts 8160. I would like the run time and torque over a speed increase, and think I am going to do it, but really trying to figure the best for the buck and even more for the space.

Thanks again

People that experience a loss of range going from a 36V-225AH battery pack to a 48V-170AH also made other changes to their cart (IE: Taller tires and/or higher ampacity controller) and their foot got heavier when the cart started performing better. Your setup is staying the same, but the weight of your foot is still a variable.

When the pack voltage stays the same, AH works for range (Run-Time) comparisons, but when the pack voltage changes, the kWh (Kilo-Watt Hours) stored in the packs has to be used.
BTW: The AH of a battery pack is equal to the AH of the cells used to build the pack. Eighteen 2V-225AH cells makes a 36V-225AH battery pack and twenty-four 2V-225AH cells make a 48V-225AH battery pack.

To get kWh, multiply the AH of the cells (or batteries - which is two or more cells in series) by the pack voltage. On the attached chart, I used the AH rating at the 20hr rate and used 2.122VPC times the number of cells in the pack to get the kWh stored in the pack.

Using those values, a 36V-225AH pack stores 8.5941 kWh of energy and a 48V-170AH pack stores 8.6578kWh of energy, so a 48V-170AH pack actually stores slightly more energy, but not enough more to be of much, if any, significance for Run-Time.

The percentage in the far right column of the attached chart is the % increase(or decrease) of the 48V pack made up of the batteries listed, as compared to a stock 36V-225AH pack. Packs made using 8V batteries are in blue text and the closer to the top of the list, the longer the Run-Time.

As you can see, most 8 x 6V pack have more stored energy than the highest AH rated 6 x 8V packs, however there is some overlap.

[sleepyluke]

Sir Nuke, that is my thoughts, now to see if the wallet can handle it!

Johnnie, thanks as usual!!!