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Old 02-19-2021, 06:25 PM   #1
MaXeD-OuT-CLUB
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Default Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

So I would like some reassurance on the batteries that I purchased for my club car. What I’m wondering is will these batteries BMS shut down due to the navitas 440a controller being converted from 48v to 72v? Here is the kit I purchased along with the navitas controller and motor. I’m not an expert on figuring this kind of crap out, any feedback would be much appreciated, thanks.

Lithium batteries: https://bigbattery.com/products/48v-bdgr-kit-of-2/

Controller: https://www.navitasvs.com/tac2

Motor:
https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/86af4...1d0d18e58c.pdf
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Old 02-19-2021, 10:03 PM   #2
mccainc
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

The Navitas controller does not convert 48v to 72v, it converts DC battery current to AC current for the motor. I think you were looking at the acceptable input voltage of the controller which is 48 to 72V. Those batteries show a max continuous discharge rate of 126A, and a peak of 250. I don’t have any experience with that controller, but I’d say you’d be cutting it close. A lot would depend on your cart setup (larger tires, lift, etc.). Those would all increase discharge current. My stock controller RXV (an AC cart) with 23” tires for example can pull 250A on accel or climbing hills loaded up.
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Old 02-19-2021, 10:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

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Originally Posted by mccainc View Post
The Navitas controller does not convert 48v to 72v, it converts DC battery current to AC current for the motor. I think you were looking at the acceptable input voltage of the controller which is 48 to 72V. Those batteries show a max continuous discharge rate of 126A, and a peak of 250. I don’t have any experience with that controller, but I’d say you’d be cutting it close. A lot would depend on your cart setup (larger tires, lift, etc.). Those would all increase discharge current. My stock controller RXV (an AC cart) with 23” tires for example can pull 250A on accel or climbing hills loaded up.
Yeah I’m basically stock hight and slightly bigger in tire size. Yeah I hope I’m good. Well we’ll see. Haha
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

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Yeah I’m basically stock hight and slightly bigger in tire size. Yeah I hope I’m good. Well we’ll see. Haha
Not sure how hilly it may be where you are, but that's probably going to be the biggest issue, assuming the 126A continuous, 250A / 6 seconds is accurate. I'll say that a ~2C continuous discharge rating is somewhat unusual, and the cells themselves probably aren't specd. for that if I had to guess - usually 1C (~66A in this case). But you'd probably normally be using around that (66a) or likely a good bit less if the ground is flat during normal cruising stretches that go on for any amount of time.

Based on what I've seen on the forum, the Navitas AC systems seem to be easier on the batteries than some of the beefy DC systems. You can also set a max current parameter, and you definitely can make it work if you ease back on that parameter in the setup. I've noticed it doesn't make as big a difference as you might think dialing back on this somewhat.

My experience is with my Tac2 600a controller and the 5kw motor (in an Onward), and having used it with a RoyPow 105Ah 51v battery and now a similar generic type that is 120AH 72V. I'm in an area w/out hills though.

Please keep us posted on how it works out!
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Old 02-20-2021, 04:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

I'd go with a third battery in parallel if I were you--over 90AH seems to what multiple sources suggested to me, although I think there are commercial carts running ~60 AH so you may be ok (not sure if that's with AC motor or not?)
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Old 02-20-2021, 11:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

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Not sure how hilly it may be where you are, but that's probably going to be the biggest issue, assuming the 126A continuous, 250A / 6 seconds is accurate. I'll say that a ~2C continuous discharge rating is somewhat unusual, and the cells themselves probably aren't specd. for that if I had to guess - usually 1C (~66A in this case). But you'd probably normally be using around that (66a) or likely a good bit less if the ground is flat during normal cruising stretches that go on for any amount of time.

Based on what I've seen on the forum, the Navitas AC systems seem to be easier on the batteries than some of the beefy DC systems. You can also set a max current parameter, and you definitely can make it work if you ease back on that parameter in the setup. I've noticed it doesn't make as big a difference as you might think dialing back on this somewhat.

My experience is with my Tac2 600a controller and the 5kw motor (in an Onward), and having used it with a RoyPow 105Ah 51v battery and now a similar generic type that is 120AH 72V. I'm in an area w/out hills though.

Please keep us posted on how it works out!
Well you where way over my head in that first paragraph haha I’m still getting use to learning about all this electrical term stuff. I know the basics of these things, but when it comes to deep info like the numbers you stated above...pfff, ****, you got me. I just thought, “I need a 48v lithium battery pack hey this set up looks cheap(er) and simple, pick it up”... I watch a YouTube on this guy that did the bigbattery swap with two 24v series setup, I kind of copied his deal and put my own little twist on it. Then started reading more about it and now I’m kind of thinking, I may of underestimated a bit, but, I hope not. Yes I do have some hill around my area where I drive the cart...well we’ll see. Haha

Yeah the AC systems are a bit easier in the power supply from what I’ve been reading. So I just heard back from navitas and they said I could adjust my controller to fit the batteries BMS. so ill start from there when I get the batteries installed and see how she does. I’ll for sure keep this thread posted along with photos.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ACHiPo View Post
I'd go with a third battery in parallel if I were you--over 90AH seems to what multiple sources suggested to me, although I think there are commercial carts running ~60 AH so you may be ok (not sure if that's with AC motor or not?)
Yeah I’m going to try this set up first for a bit then see about adding a third. I don’t go far in the cart, just to the park and down town a bit, max 6 miles round trip if that. Is 66ah roughly 30miles on one charge? I mean give or take the conditions and the components. (This is the stuff I’m still learning) I would never imagine going that far anyway but that would defiantly exceed my limits. Correct me if I’m wrong but from what I’ve read more battles in parallel just gets you more AH not voltage correct? If that’s the case, I’ll put that money toward more beer.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

Batteries in parallel will increase the AH and keep the voltage the same; correct.
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Old 02-21-2021, 11:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

I think 30 miles is unlikely with 66ah. Remember, if you want your batteries to last you won’t be able to use all 66ah. Most people discharge to around 80% of total capacity, which in your case would be 53 usable amp/hours. Based on my similar leaf setup, I would get around 20 miles. It also depends on how heavy your right foot is. You’ll have no problem with the mission you described though.
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Old 02-21-2021, 12:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

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Originally Posted by mccainc View Post
I think 30 miles is unlikely with 66ah. Remember, if you want your batteries to last you won’t be able to use all 66ah. Most people discharge to around 80% of total capacity, which in your case would be 53 usable amp/hours. Based on my similar leaf setup, I would get around 20 miles. It also depends on how heavy your right foot is. You’ll have no problem with the mission you described though.
This is good info and he's on target. For reference, I could get ~45 miles out of a 105ah 51v battery using the Navitas setup I mentioned. But that was on completely flat ground. 23" tires, so that would be harder on the battery than yours, and I limited speed to 22.5mph for the test. But as @mccainc noted, you don't routinely want to use most of the capacity - don't use the last 15-20% if possible. So as he said, 30 miles is probably unlikely, but going by my numbers, if you kept speeds at 20 or less and ground was flat, you could likely cover a max of 27 miles or so but you are dipping into the last 20% somewhat to do it.

20 miles if you have similar uphill / downhill amounts and the grades aren't too steep sounds like a good number I'd venture to guess, while keeping your battery at ideal voltage levels for maximum cycle life.
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Old 02-21-2021, 02:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Going lithium with the NAVITAS 440 ac kit

Awesome! I appreciate all the information guys it really helps. I can’t wait to get these batteries installed and get this bad boy going. Bigbattery said they are receiving the back ordered parts to complete this battery setup and hopefully get them shipped out by the end of the week. I’ll keep the thread updated.
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