Voltage to frame??

TheFlash16 · 01-15-2014, 03:55 PM

Hey guys had PDS txt come in with a stop and go issue. The cart would drive then just die. I went and took it for a spin and sure enough it died. It has an AllTrax NCX controller and it flashed two (2) times red. I assumed bad controller but decided to check to make sure there was no voltage to the frame because I've heard of that being an issue for that code. Well the frame has 22-24 Volts. Theres no stripped wires. No headlights. no grounds running to the frame. The motor passes continuity tests so I don't think that's it. I have torn it apart and can't find any loose or stripped wires. Any ideas guys?? All help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Cameron

ab46501 · 01-15-2014, 04:13 PM

I had voltage on the frame once and it was due to the motor going bad internally. the motor ran but was a little weak. I have a series cart.

TheFlash16 · 01-15-2014, 04:18 PM

ab46501, I checked with my meter from A1, A2, F1, F2 to fram and there was no continuity. I don't think it's the motor. Did you find a test for it or did you just decide to replace it?

scottyb · 01-15-2014, 05:13 PM

Check the F1 and F2 wires for continuity with the frame.

Volt_Ampere · 01-15-2014, 09:30 PM

It is almost certainly a little acid leakage from one of the batteries creating a conductive path to the frame. Clean your batteries real well and it will probably go away.

yurtle · 01-16-2014, 04:03 AM

I had voltage to frame and never could find the source. I tried hooking up a light and it didn't do anything. There was voltage, but not enough "oomph" to do anything.

Possible candidates are controller, solenoid, reducer, motor. I checked 'em all, then finally gave up. All wires and batteries are clean.

ab46501 · 01-16-2014, 11:21 AM

I just decided to replace it since it was suspect with the loss of power and it cured my problem.

JohnnieB · 01-16-2014, 12:19 PM

Voltage on the frame when there isn't any apparent reason for it, is typically due to the fact there are no perfect insulators combined with the high input impedance of the voltmeter being used.

The voltage potential exists between the battery pack and the frame due to there being an ever so slight current path between them. The phantom current path can be thing like dampness in the air, or a hint of corrosion between pins in a plug, or all sorts of things that are next to impossible to find. If the input impedance of the voltmeter is 1 Meg-Ohm, it will read 1/2 the voltage potential between the battery + and frame if the phantom current path is also 1 Meg-ohm. Since the voltage on the frame (22-24V) is greater than half of the pack voltage, the phantom path has more resistance in it the the input impedance of the voltmeter being used to read it.

Clip lead a 1k resistor or less (The 250 ohm or 470 ohm used on solenoids will work) between the battery negative and the frame and the voltage should no longer be measurable. Try running cart that way and if the controller stops misbehaving, the frame voltage is the problem.

kgsc · 01-16-2014, 01:01 PM

Had the same 2 lights with my DCX. Disconnected all the wires from the batteries and still had voltage on the frame. Juice was just leaking through the cases to ground. Removed all the batteries and painted the frame with a undercoating spray. Problem went away. I now have some 2012 Trojans about to go in there so that should fix it all.

yurtle · 01-17-2014, 04:56 AM

Capacitive coupling?

01-15-2014, 03:55 PM	#1
TheFlash16 Getting Wild Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 83	Voltage to frame?? Hey guys had PDS txt come in with a stop and go issue. The cart would drive then just die. I went and took it for a spin and sure enough it died. It has an AllTrax NCX controller and it flashed two (2) times red. I assumed bad controller but decided to check to make sure there was no voltage to the frame because I've heard of that being an issue for that code. Well the frame has 22-24 Volts. Theres no stripped wires. No headlights. no grounds running to the frame. The motor passes continuity tests so I don't think that's it. I have torn it apart and can't find any loose or stripped wires. Any ideas guys?? All help would be appreciated. Thanks! Cameron

01-15-2014, 04:13 PM	#2
ab46501 Gone Wild Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Olive Branch, MS Posts: 313	Re: Voltage to frame?? I had voltage on the frame once and it was due to the motor going bad internally. the motor ran but was a little weak. I have a series cart.

01-15-2014, 04:18 PM	#3
TheFlash16 Getting Wild Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 83	Re: Voltage to frame?? ab46501, I checked with my meter from A1, A2, F1, F2 to fram and there was no continuity. I don't think it's the motor. Did you find a test for it or did you just decide to replace it?

01-15-2014, 09:30 PM	#5
Volt_Ampere Gone Wild Join Date: May 2012 Location: Rio Verde, Az Posts: 7,171	Re: Voltage to frame?? It is almost certainly a little acid leakage from one of the batteries creating a conductive path to the frame. Clean your batteries real well and it will probably go away.

01-16-2014, 04:03 AM	#6
yurtle Gone Mad Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Buford, GA Posts: 8,988	Re: Voltage to frame?? I had voltage to frame and never could find the source. I tried hooking up a light and it didn't do anything. There was voltage, but not enough "oomph" to do anything. Possible candidates are controller, solenoid, reducer, motor. I checked 'em all, then finally gave up. All wires and batteries are clean.

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01-16-2014, 11:21 AM	#7
ab46501 Gone Wild Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Olive Branch, MS Posts: 313	Re: Voltage to frame?? I just decided to replace it since it was suspect with the loss of power and it cured my problem.

01-16-2014, 12:19 PM	#8
JohnnieB Techno-Nerd Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: West Virginia Posts: 19,654	Re: Voltage to frame?? Voltage on the frame when there isn't any apparent reason for it, is typically due to the fact there are no perfect insulators combined with the high input impedance of the voltmeter being used. The voltage potential exists between the battery pack and the frame due to there being an ever so slight current path between them. The phantom current path can be thing like dampness in the air, or a hint of corrosion between pins in a plug, or all sorts of things that are next to impossible to find. If the input impedance of the voltmeter is 1 Meg-Ohm, it will read 1/2 the voltage potential between the battery + and frame if the phantom current path is also 1 Meg-ohm. Since the voltage on the frame (22-24V) is greater than half of the pack voltage, the phantom path has more resistance in it the the input impedance of the voltmeter being used to read it. Clip lead a 1k resistor or less (The 250 ohm or 470 ohm used on solenoids will work) between the battery negative and the frame and the voltage should no longer be measurable. Try running cart that way and if the controller stops misbehaving, the frame voltage is the problem.

01-16-2014, 01:01 PM	#9
kgsc Gone Wild Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Aiken, SC Posts: 13,144	Re: Voltage to frame?? Had the same 2 lights with my DCX. Disconnected all the wires from the batteries and still had voltage on the frame. Juice was just leaking through the cases to ground. Removed all the batteries and painted the frame with a undercoating spray. Problem went away. I now have some 2012 Trojans about to go in there so that should fix it all.

01-17-2014, 04:56 AM	#10
yurtle Gone Mad Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Buford, GA Posts: 8,988	Re: Voltage to frame?? Capacitive coupling?

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