New Batteries, Low Drive Time

[Wingsy]

Originally Posted by NoleFan4Ever

That again is a ~little hasty conclusion. Now you are onto "new" batteries and must put them through the break-in cycle before you can do any base lining on them. This should be at least 8-12 (have heard as many as 15) full charge to 50% level uses. This is what activates the entire regenerative process of the electrolytes and plates and ensures you a good long battery life.

And in your example of the 6 day stretch and the batteries were not driven very far, remember, they self discharge as much as 4-5% per week so when the OBC performed the "test" portion, it seen them a little bit lower then the energy usage and compensated for that,

And I see a very big difference in these and your old ones as they were going 16 hours frequently and you felt you were burning them up (and during this break-in period you may hit a 16 hour charge)

My advice would be to break-in these batteries as described and then monitor them again, but that is the only thing I see odd right now. And after the break-in, you should have optimal power and duration from those batteries and if you use the P&P method mention earlier in the thread, you should get a long time out of them as I am at 7+ years now with my US 12v's.

Good luck!

Hi NoleFan. Hasty conclusion? Nah, I've been working on that for quite a while now. :)

I don't see what a new battery has to do with the charger behavior. I know they need to be cycled many times before they reach their full capacity. So today I have a battery with X capacity. After 20 charges I'll have one equal to X+1. That might stretch out those plots by a little but how can that change the fundemental behavior of the charger?

And not to nit-pick but there was never a 6-day period between charges. Prior to charges 2, 3 & 4 was 1 day, 4 days for the 5th and 3 for the 6th. Self discharge could only have been a couple percent max.

I have a question for you... Why do you not find it odd that the charger did an equalization charge one day, then 3 days later when only driven 1.6 miles it did another? I secretly feel like it isn't odd either, but for a different reason I believe. I think it is doing what it is programmed to do, and there is a piece of missing information out there that we don't have that would explain it. But until I know why I'm going to keep on thinking that 2 equalization charges in a row is a bit much. I'll probably still think that even after I know the why, but that's just a probability. (That's 2 in a row so far. If this goes like my previous battery it won't stop at 2.)

And I'd love to put a data logger on your charger to see how they have lasted you 7 years and are still going. When you drive your cart for a mile, how long do they charge?

[NoleFan4Ever]

Originally Posted by Wingsy

Hi NoleFan. Hasty conclusion? Nah, I've been working on that for quite a while now. :)

I don't see what a new battery has to do with the charger behavior. I know they need to be cycled many times before they reach their full capacity. So today I have a battery with X capacity. After 20 charges I'll have one equal to X+1. That might stretch out those plots by a little but how can that change the fundemental behavior of the charger?

And not to nit-pick but there was never a 6-day period between charges. Prior to charges 2, 3 & 4 was 1 day, 4 days for the 5th and 3 for the 6th. Self discharge could only have been a couple percent max.

I have a question for you... Why do you not find it odd that the charger did an equalization charge one day, then 3 days later when only driven 1.6 miles it did another? I secretly feel like it isn't odd either, but for a different reason I believe. I think it is doing what it is programmed to do, and there is a piece of missing information out there that we don't have that would explain it. But until I know why I'm going to keep on thinking that 2 equalization charges in a row is a bit much. I'll probably still think that even after I know the why, but that's just a probability. (That's 2 in a row so far. If this goes like my previous battery it won't stop at 2.)

And I'd love to put a data logger on your charger to see how they have lasted you 7 years and are still going. When you drive your cart for a mile, how long do they charge?

Tah, tah tah. If you are going to quote me, quote what I said. "a ~little hasty conclusion". And that is easily derived from those of us that have years of experience working with these carts, using these chargers, and helping countless others get theirs going with the same or similar advice. Albeit you may be the most subjective I have seen, as with anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You are no different, but will not get most anyone here, and most importantly me, to believe that is good to use your cart for any duration and then not plug it right back in. My proof is already factual in my batteries history and the ones around me or on this forum who have maintained them this way and gotten long lives out of them. June '10 to August '17 is well documented and like I always say, I probably could not get the duration out of them someone with a new set can, but for our travel, terrain and loading, they still continue to meet the need and have never let us down.

Charging behavior is more because the batteries are still not broken in and the readings the OBC gets will still be slightly off. I am in no way saying I can reverse engineer this and know its in and outs, but I do know it is a computer and factors/calculates algorithms based on energy usage, voltage, etc. and yours will still be slightly off as you are breaking them in.

And I have to ask this, since you say "I know they need to be cycled many times before they reach their full capacity." Then why would you start of on day 1 and go through the first 6 charge cycles and never even come close to taking your pack down to the 50% range as required for break-in? I do not say or ask this with malice, but more so again I see you state you know something, but in reality, you do not seem to fully or you perhaps misunderstand what you should know about it.

And you are not nit-picking, you are correct, I said 6 day and misread your "6th Charge".

It did an equalization charge because it knows (or is supposed to know) that batteries will stratify and carry floating charges or some higher SOC's and since it is across 4 to 6 batteries and would cause sulfation over time, it will do and equalization charge to help prevent it and even it out. (And no, there is no way for it to sense each of the batteries, it can only sense the pack) And I have heard of people manually doing this from once/week to once/month, I do not know how it is programmed into the OBC but if it works true to form, it should be roughly a 10% higher charge voltage.

When we drive my cart, it may be just to the neighbors or to the store and other neighborhoods. When I plug it back in, it can be low voltage for an hour or two (.5 mile to mile) or after a long drive (3 to 5 miles), it will be 8 or 9 hours. These times were only approximations. I do see that as they have gotten older, they do require a longer charging cycle and I attribute that to their aging. I do have and have had for many years an active Battery Life Saver installed on my cart and would recommend that to anyone. And mine would record differently from yours, mine is a PD3 and an '07 cart so my OBC uses a slightly different algorithm then yours would because my charger can take advantage of it and if hooked to a PD2 or 1 it could not.

And here is an old thread that I thought you may find as interesting.
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...-function.html

Now last thing I want to share with you. If you truly believe your OBC/charger combo does not suit your needs, then purchase you a new Accusense DPI charger and remove or Bypass your OBC and now you are getting the best the market has to offer. These chargers have algorithms specifically for your type of batteries and it has a trickle charge/maintenance feature to keep your pack always topped off. They are available from Scottyb - Carts Unlimited and David Hicks - Revolution Golf Cars