Brand New Alltrax DCX400 controller, solenoid, batteries, cables and nothing....help?

[kernal]

Originally Posted by gunnardog

No I went over to the dark side and switched to Apple two years ago. I am thinking about breaking out one of my old laptops with a 15 pin so I can mess with the programming.

I just got back from another shake out run and it is getting a little faster. This is only the second time I have taken it out.

How valuable is regen braking for extending the charge on a battery pack? Does it put much back? It seems like the regen occurs so quickly that it wouldn't have time to put much in but considering the way that batteries charge but I don't totally understand the theory behind how that works.

Basically the electric motor turns into a generator when the cart is "coasting". If you really want to understand it in depth, Google is your friend.

My experience after 14 years in my extremely golf cart friendly city is that "regen" carts have no better range than "series" carts. The dealers here tend to talk about regen (PDS, IQ or other) in the context of safety. Walk away protection and speed limiting, especially down hills.

i did an unscientific test one day with a PDS cart against my series cart. The carts were pretty much identical in configuration, weight and tire diameter. Both carts had T 105 batteries with the ones in the PDS cart 2 years newer with and a lot less cycles on them. The PDS cart was stock while the series cart had a 400amp controller and a high speed motor. On paper the PDS cart should have a longer range under identical conditions, regen or not. We did a run of about 15miles (GPS) with one cart following the other over the somewhat hilly cart paths. After a 30 minute rest battery voltages were taken on both carts. Though very close the PDS cart actually used very slightly more more energy than the series cart.
Take it for what its worth.

AC motored carts are different. Might be a factor there.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by gunnardog

1. No I went over to the dark side and switched to Apple two years ago. I am thinking about breaking out one of my old laptops with a 15 pin so I can mess with the programming.

2. I just got back from another shake out run and it is getting a little faster. This is only the second time I have taken it out.

3. How valuable is regen braking for extending the charge on a battery pack? Does it put much back?

4. It seems like the regen occurs so quickly that it wouldn't have time to put much in but considering the way that batteries charge but I don't totally understand the theory behind how that works.

1. If the old laptop is running Win-98 or later, it should work.

2. If the cart has sat for a while, it may take some time for the lubricants to change from glue to greases and oils. Also, temperature affects battery voltage as well as battery capacity and carts can go faster and can travel further on warmer days.

3. Don't know for sure, I've never measured it. Some of the energy used to accelerate the cart to speed is recovered and can be used again, so the cart is more efficient, but I use it more for high speed braking than efficiency.

The rear wheels only mechanical drum brakes were originally designed to stop half ton carts whose max speed was about 12 MPH, so they are marginal on carts traveling 50% faster (18 MPH) and even less adequate for carts traveling more than twice the design speed. The inadequacy isn't so much in the stopping ability as it is in overheating the brake shoes and brake drums. Disk brakes can handle the heat better, so brake fade doesn't occur as quickly, but the stopping distance is about the same when the brakes are cool.

What is actually needed is four wheel brakes. There are aftermarket two wheel and four wheel disk brake kits available, but they require 10" rims or larger and I have 8" rims, so I use regen braking to knock the cart speed down into the design range of the drum brakes I have. Of course, when I have to do a panic stop, I plant my size 16 shoe firmly on the brake pedal and lock up the rear tires, so having regen braking or two-wheel disk brakes becomes a moot point.

4. Not much energy is recovered during rapid stops. On city streets, I typically lift my foot off the throttle pedal about 10 to 15 yards before a stop sign and don't push the brake pedal until the cart has slowed to <10 MPH.

The regen braking stays on longer going down hills. Typically, I "coast" down the steeper hills at about 18 to 20 MPH, but there are a couple that it gets a bit faster on.

The way regen braking works is fairly simple, but quantifying its output gets pretty complex because there are so many variables.

In laymen's terms, a DC brush type electric motor is basically a motor and a generator in the same package. Feed current through both the moveable windings (Armature) and stationary windings (Field - aka Stator) and the armature spins, so you have a motor. Feed current through only one of the two sets of windings while the armature is spinning and current is induced into the other winding, so you have a generator.

The difference between a series wound motor and a shunt wound motor is the way the two sets of windings are connected to the outside world. In a series motor configuration the winding are connected in series and in a shunt wound configuration, they are connected in parallel. In theory, the same motor can be connected either way and it will run, but in practice the motor's windings are tailored for optimal performance in the configuration they are to be used in.

Technically, a series wound motor can be turned into a generator, but it cannot be easily done in a series drive cart, so it isn't done.

A sepex motor is a type of shunt motor whose windings are wound for optimal performance when they are separately excited and the controllers in sepex carts (DCS and PDS) are actually two controllers in the same box, one for each set of windings, so for the most part, what is needed to turn the motor into a generator already exists.

Basically, when you lift your foot off the throttle, the controller feeding the armature stops feeding current to the armature, but the controller feeding the field winds continues to feed current to them. At that point, you are only feeding current through one set of the two sets of windings and the armature is spinning, so you have a generator.

If the voltage developed in the armature is greater than the battery pack voltage at the moment, current flows into the battery, charging it. How many amps flow depends on the difference between the armature and battery pack voltage and the voltage developed in the armature depends on how fast it is spinning. (That is why a 36V system has more regen braking than a 48V system.)

Hope this answers you question.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by kernal

Basically the electric motor turns into a generator when the cart is "coasting". If you really want to understand it in depth, Google is your friend.

My experience after 14 years in my extremely golf cart friendly city is that "regen" carts have no better range than "series" carts. The dealers here tend to talk about regen (PDS, IQ or other) in the context of safety. Walk away protection and speed limiting, especially down hills.

i did an unscientific test one day with a PDS cart against my series cart. The carts were pretty much identical in configuration, weight and tire diameter. Both carts had T 105 batteries with the ones in the PDS cart 2 years newer with and a lot less cycles on them. The PDS cart was stock while the series cart had a 400amp controller and a high speed motor. On paper the PDS cart should have a longer range under identical conditions, regen or not. We did a run of about 15miles (GPS) with one cart following the other over the somewhat hilly cart paths. After a 30 minute rest battery voltages were taken on both carts. Though very close the PDS cart actually used very slightly more more energy than the series cart.
Take it for what its worth.

AC motored carts are different. Might be a factor there.

Series motors tend to be more efficient than sepex motors.

When running at their "sweet spot", series cart motors can turn about 90% of the input energy into torque, while at their "sweet spot", sepex cart motors max out below 80%.

By the same token, sepex motors tend to run hotter than series motors.


Except for the low RPM end to the torque curve, AC motors are more efficient the either a series or sepex DC motor.

[gornoman]

Originally Posted by scottyb

That's crazy! This is the first I heard of this insanity - Thank you for the heads up.
Would be nice if Alltrax could bother to notify their dealers so we don't have to find this **** out on the forum

Actually, I remember reading about this condition a few months ago right here on BGW. It HAS happened before, but I'll be darned if I can remember to whom...

[Ian5013]

Hi guys. I'm having something of a similar problem. I can only go reverse even when the switch is in forward. The buzzer keeps buzzing on f/n/r. Any help I would be grateful.

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by Ian5013

Hi guys. I'm having something of a similar problem. I can only go reverse even when the switch is in forward. The buzzer keeps buzzing on f/n/r. Any help I would be grateful.

You are best off starting a new thread. Give as much vehicle information and history as you can when asking your question.

[david1469]

JohnnieB, I have the exact same set up as you - motor, solenoid, and batteries.

Except I have crown batteries running 48v and had the XCT500 until today because I was disappointed with the top speed compared to my DCX400.

So, I re-installed my DCX400, LED blinks 4 times and I have a solid green light.

However, the cart does not move. Any thoughts on this sir?

Thank you!

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by david1469

JohnnieB, I have the exact same set up as you - motor, solenoid, and batteries.

Except I have crown batteries running 48v and had the XCT500 until today because I was disappointed with the top speed compared to my DCX400.

So, I re-installed my DCX400, LED blinks 4 times and I have a solid green light.

However, the cart does not move. Any thoughts on this sir?

Thank you!

I'll reply in your other thread: http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...t-respond.html